Terminology For Non-Catholics

[Winchester]

If I commit a mortal sin, I only need go to confession and I may receive communion again, assuming I have received that sacrament. Because I am Catholic but out of communion whilst in a state of mortal sin. I never cease being Catholic. In fact, after Confirmation, it is beyond my power to cease being Catholic.

If I am not a Catholic, I must go through RCIA to become one (as is the current practice--the method isn't dogmatic). I may not simply go to confession and then receive communion. Because I am not Catholic at all.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='27 October 2009 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1256687877' post='1992396']
Anyone who is baptized and who rejects the faith - as a whole or in part - is either a material or formal heretic.
[/quote]
In which case, separated brethern would be a specific sort of heretic?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='27 October 2009 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1256688116' post='1992398']
In which case, separated brethern would be a specific sort of heretic?
[/quote]
Most Protestants, and I say this as a former Protestant, are material heretics. I was a material heretic prior to my conversion, while the Protestant Reformers were - in most cases - formal heretics.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='27 October 2009 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1256688434' post='1992401']
Most Protestants, and I say this as a former Protestant, are material heretics. I was a material heretic prior to my conversion, while the Protestant Reformers were - in most cases - formal heretics.
[/quote]
Curses! I remember these terms. My original summary is inexact but true in a sense.

[KnightofChrist]

Does once Catholic always Catholic sound a little too much like once saved always saved? True the two are not exactly the same. But when one really sits and thinks of the words "Catholic Heretic" or "Catholic Schismatic" do those words together make since logical? A heretic or schismatic is outside the Catholic Church, [b]cut off.[/b] Cut off, and outside the Church are important to understand if those who fall under that are actually catholic.

A catholic is of the Catholic Church, if one is cut off outside, how can they be part of something in which they are not a part?

A heretic or schismatic can repent and become Catholic again. Just as someone can repent and become saved again. So long as they remain until the end.

[Apotheoun]

It is baptism, and not the title "Catholic," that is important in answering this question, because anyone who is validly baptized, but who rejects the faith - in whole or in part - is either a formal or material heretic.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='27 October 2009 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1256688669' post='1992403']
Curses! I remember these terms. My original summary is inexact but true in a sense.
[/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='27 October 2009 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1256689129' post='1992414']
It is baptism, and not the title "Catholic," that is important in answering this question, because anyone who is validly baptized, but who rejects the faith - in whole or in part - is either a formal or material heretic.
[/quote]

That makes sense.

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='27 October 2009 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1256688955' post='1992411']
Does once Catholic always Catholic sound a little too much like once saved always saved? True the two are not exactly the same. But when one really sits and thinks of the words "Catholic Heretic" or "Catholic Schismatic" do those words together make since logical? A heretic or schismatic is outside the Catholic Church, [b]cut off.[/b] Cut off, and outside the Church are important to understand if those who fall under that are actually catholic.

A catholic is of the Catholic Church, if one is cut off outside, how can they be part of something in which they are not a part?

A heretic or schismatic can repent and become Catholic again. Just as someone can repent and become saved again. So long as they remain until the end.
[/quote]
They can return to communion. Their sacraments are still valid. They don't become a non-Catholic. Catholic can go to Hell, just like professional wrestlers and power company executives.

[OraProMe]

Why did the Church refer to Protestants and the Orthodox as heretics and schismatic then? I agree with Apo, there is a distinction between material and formal heresy.

[Katholikos]

"HERETIC. A person professing heresy. Ecclesiastical law distinguishes between a formal heretic, as one who is sinfully culpable, and a material heretic, who is not morally guilty for what may be objectively heretical doctrine." [i]Modern Catholic Dictionary,[/i] Father John A. Hardon

Apotheoun gets a gold star on his report card.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='27 October 2009 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1256693301' post='1992472']
Why did the Church refer to Protestants and the Orthodox as heretics and schismatic then? I agree with Apo, there is a distinction between material and formal heresy.
[/quote]

Because the first Protestants and Orthodox were originally Catholics who left the Church and taught heterodoxy.

[Guest Tony Atonement]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='25 October 2009 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1256454049' post='1991027']
What do you think is better when describing non-Catholics. Heretic and schismatic or separated brethren? Smooch up or try to emphasis the gravity of their situation? Justify your answer.
[/quote]


For you to even open the question for people's opinion is to dismiss the official RC term ( "separated"). So you are, as they say, the typical, "cafeteria catholic", picking and choosing whatever makes you feel nice and fuzzy.
For your information, the CCC states that God uses other churches "as a means of salvation" (#819), and no where in modern RC literature are Protestants referred to as heretics--nor are they said to be in a "grave" situation. So you are demonstrating your own rebellion to your own church. Why don't you try starting your own denomination?

[Guest Tony Atonement]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='26 October 2009 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1256613176' post='1991877']
"Heretic" is definitely strong. Actually, I tend to use "heretic" more for Catholics than for non-Catholics (for example, Nancy Pelosi is a "heretic" because she has been warned for her stances, but persists in them nonetheless).

Schismatic, too. I think because this sounds like "Heretic".

I don't like "separated brethren", because it first brings to mind "separated".

Instead, I prefer "our protestant brothers and sisters" when referring to the group at large. It doesn't have the word "separate" in it, still distinguishes that they are of the protestant tradition, and emphasizes our unity in Christ. When referring to just one person, I would probably just say, "So and so is a protestant", because it's simpler, and would make them feel less awkward than anything else. I feel that I can do a lot more to include them with actions and non-verbals than I can by tacking on some ecumenical phraseology at that point.
[/quote]

_____________________________________________________________________________
Vatican 2 said that from the beginning it was common to offer "good works to God for the salvation of sinners".
Since Protestant (and Biblical theology) utterly reject such a concept, we cannot logically be considered your "brothers and sisters". Offering good works so that "the penitents may be washed, cleansed and redeemed" as V-2 went on to say, is must be classified as "another gospel" (2 Cor 11:4).
Also, Ps 49:7 says we can by no means redeem our brother.

[Nihil Obstat]

Lol!!!