Srs Of The Holy Innocents & St. Gianna Molla

[GraceUk]

Charles de Foucauld (Hope I spellt it right this time) wrote a rule and was an ordained priest. But I don't know anything about the rules for setting up new communities and I wasn't meaning to say I did. So sorry about that.

[Gemma]

[quote name='humbleheart' date='26 October 2009 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1256578213' post='1991555']
I'm not sure that this is the same thing as the Little Brothers of Jesus and the Missionaries of Charity. To begin with, Mother Teresa was already a fully professed religious sister when she asked permission to found her own community. She was able to train any novices who came to join her. She also got permission from the bishop and the provincial of her own order before she left Loreto. If I understand Gemma correctly, the lady who wants to found this new community isn't a religious sister and hasn't spoken to the bishop yet.

Equally, did Charles de Foucauld intend to found a new community? Myunderstanding of him was that he lived a hermit's life, and men whowere inspired by his work and prayer decided to come together incommunity after he died. I don't know much about him, but I'm not sure that his situation can be compared to this.

Gemma, I've read the part on the website where it says that it isn't necessary for an aspiring founder to go to the bishop until aspirants have been gathered and the constitutions drawn up. That doesn't fit with what I know of the foundation process. Here in Britain there are two very new communities, the Sisters of the Gospel of Life and the Community of Our Lady of Walsingham. Cardinal Winning was involved in the foundation of the Sisters of the Gospel of Life from the outset, and when Sr Camilla felt called to found COLW the first thing she did was ask for help and encouragement from her diocese. I would be uncomfortable discerning with any community (a prospective one in this case) if the bishop did not know what was going on. I suspect other discerners might feel the same.
[/quote]

Cardinal Winning is their founder. Cardinal O'Connor is the founder of the Sisters of Life.

I'm not sure as to the process that COLW went through, but I know that one foundress is a former religious.

In the times that I have approached a bishop regarding a proposed charism, I didn't have anything on paper. He had no objection to the charism.

My OP SD--former president of the now-defunct Fellowship of Emerging Religious Communities--told me to make sure these emerging charisms have everything on paper, and that they've lived it. The emerging St. Bruno Lay Contemplatives were told by canonists that they were to have everything down on paper and lived before approaching their bishop for approval. There is precedent for doing it this way.

I have a number of other emerging charisms which are being developed via yahoo group. Only after everyone's been living the life at home will they decide on where to live--or work on finding a diocese in which to truly emerge. Karen's charism is the only one that has a potential home diocese. She was trying to have everything written down before approaching the canonist--who is to the bishop what a lawyer is to a judge--and meet the bishop that way.

There have been inquiries. It's not like people think she's nuts--and she isn't. She may end up doing her novitiate before others come. That's okay. We're open to that happening. We were just seeing if there would be interest to see which route formation needs to take.

Blessings,
Gemma

[tnavarro61]

[quote name='humbleheart' date='27 October 2009 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1256578213' post='1991555']
I'm not sure that this is the same thing as the Little Brothers of Jesus and the Missionaries of Charity. To begin with, Mother Teresa was already a fully professed religious sister when she asked permission to found her own community. She was able to train any novices who came to join her. She also got permission from the bishop and the provincial of her own order before she left Loreto. If I understand Gemma correctly, the lady who wants to found this new community isn't a religious sister and hasn't spoken to the bishop yet.

Equally, did Charles de Foucauld intend to found a new community? Myunderstanding of him was that he lived a hermit's life, and men whowere inspired by his work and prayer decided to come together incommunity after he died. I don't know much about him, but I'm not sure that his situation can be compared to this.

Gemma, I've read the part on the website where it says that it isn't necessary for an aspiring founder to go to the bishop until aspirants have been gathered and the constitutions drawn up. That doesn't fit with what I know of the foundation process. Here in Britain there are two very new communities, the Sisters of the Gospel of Life and the Community of Our Lady of Walsingham. Cardinal Winning was involved in the foundation of the Sisters of the Gospel of Life from the outset, and when Sr Camilla felt called to found COLW the first thing she did was ask for help and encouragement from her diocese. I would be uncomfortable discerning with any community (a prospective one in this case) if the bishop did not know what was going on. I suspect other discerners might feel the same.
[/quote]

This is also what I know about founding a religous community. The new foundation must be supervised by the local bishop (like the Children of Mary in Columbus)

Gemma, i think humbleheart refers to the Sisters of the Gospel of Life, not the Sisters of Life. [url="http://gospeloflifesisters.wordpress.com/"]Sisters of the Gospel of Life[/url]

I would feel uncomfortable too, discerning with a community that is not known by the bishop.

Edited October 27, 2009 by tnavarro61

[Saint Therese]

I was wondering if perhaps someone could explain how a charism "emerges"? I'm just a little confused because it seems to me that someone either has a charism or they don't; since a charism is a gift from God.
Thanks!

Edited October 27, 2009 by Saint Therese

[tnavarro61]

I am also kinda confused with the "Foundress" page (i think this one is a new page)
[quote]
When Gemma had her first vision of the Sisters of the Holy Innocents & St. Gianna Molla in 1989 outside the Concord abortuary in Knoxville, Tennessee, I was 20 years old, [/quote]

I know Gianna Molla was beatified in 1994, canonized a decade later.

[Gemma]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='27 October 2009 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1256613226' post='1991878']
I was wondering if perhaps someone could explain how a charism "emerges"? I'm just a little confused because it seems to me that someone either has a charism or they don't; since a charism is a gift from God.
Thanks!
[/quote]

Obtain Fr. Gambari's book about founding orders from the Institute on Religious Life. That will tell you everything you need to know.

If you have a better word for it, please tell us. "Emergence" is what best describes it, because the details are slowly revealed to the founder.

Read the lives of the founders. That will show you how charisms emerge.

The most significant example that I can give is that of the Passionists. The Passionists weren't called the Congregation of the Sacred Passion from the get-go. When St. Paul of the Cross became a hermit to discern what he was feeling called to, he kept calling the new group, "The Poor of Jesus."

He and his brother lived the charism, and he had to use his contacts at the Vatican to get an 'unofficial' audience with the pope, after having been turned away at the gates. He met up with the pope when he was receiving a tour of a church in Rome.

I know folks on this phorum don't want to believe anything I say. They keep asking questions, and I answer to the best of my ability, but my communications deficit comes into play, and I may not explain as thoroughly as I perhaps should. Please keep this in mind.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' date='27 October 2009 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1256628965' post='1992018']
I am also kinda confused with the "Foundress" page (i think this one is a new page)


I know Gianna Molla was beatified in 1994, canonized a decade later.
[/quote]

Yes, that's Karen's page. She wanted the world to know her story, so that she didn't seem to be hiding behind the curtain.

St. Gianna Molla was added after she was beatified, but I cannot remember the actual date of adding her. I will have to go back into the website and make that edit.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' date='25 October 2009 - 03:05 AM' timestamp='1256450735' post='1991016']
i also wonder if the family of St Gianna knows about this.
[/quote]

I just received this via email from Gianna Emanuela Molla herself:

"Thank you very much for this information.
Many greetings."

So, yes, her family knows, and they apparently have no objections.

Karen's page has had the correction made. The Charism page was updated to reflect the approximate date of St. Gianna being added as a patron.

Blessings,
Gemma

[alleros]

It all reads like.... wishful thinking, ideas and....... moonshine.

That may sound harsh, and ideas have to come from somewhere, but in the cases of most orders they originlly are not ideas but seeing a huge need in the world, not in the mind. eg Mother Teresa and many others.

And indeed yes, via the Church also. That is a safeguard and also a courtesy.

The site has been going like this for several years. Just too many ideas for this to be real and sound.

[organwerke]

Well, I have to say that to me too sounds a little strange a Community... that only speaks in the future!
But I have to say the same that I don't understand this great aversion I see in the forum.
I've read the website and I saw nothing that goes against the Catholic Faith, hierarchy, etc...
I know for certain, too, that many religious families had difficult beginnings, misundarstandings, oppositions etc also into the church, and also for many years, before they were fully recognized.
Moreover, I read in the Vocation Page that "We recommend those younger than 35 to look at other pro-life communities before coming to us": this sounds really honest to me. But...if a person feels that she wants the same to live this charism...what's so wrong?
So, my opinion is...that nobody here is trying to force anyone to enter this Community, so, if a person isn't interested in, there's no problem.
It is sufficient to say...I'm not interested, thank you! That's all!
But this, of course, is only my opinion.

Edited October 27, 2009 by organwerke

[rosamundi]

[quote name='Gemma' date='27 October 2009 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1256649431' post='1992053']
I know folks on this phorum don't want to believe anything I say. They keep asking questions, and I answer to the best of my ability, but my communications deficit comes into play, and I may not explain as thoroughly as I perhaps should. Please keep this in mind.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

I don't think it is true that people don't want to believe you, but entrusting your eternal life to the Lord via a religious community is a deadly serious thing. Especially in regard to a new community, if something isn't clear, people are right to keep asking questions until it becomes clear, or the founder/foundress realises that a point is causing such confusion that there is a need for clarification.

If people keep asking questions, don't take it as a personal attack on you or the charism, but as an opportunity to practice a work of mercy - instructing the ignorant.

[Gemma]

[quote name='organwerke' date='27 October 2009 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1256674862' post='1992268']
Well, I have to say that to me too sounds a little strange a Community... that only speaks in the future!
But I have to say the same that I don't understand this great aversion I see in the forum.
I've read the website and I saw nothing that goes against the Catholic Faith, hierarchy, etc...
I know for certain, too, that many religious families had difficult beginnings, misundarstandings, oppositions etc also into the church, and also for many years, before they were fully recognized.
Moreover, I read in the Vocation Page that "We recommend those younger than 35 to look at other pro-life communities before coming to us": this sounds really honest to me. But...if a person feels that she wants the same to live this charism...what's so wrong?
So, my opinion is...that nobody here is trying to force anyone to enter this Community, so, if a person isn't interested in, there's no problem.
It is sufficient to say...I'm not interested, thank you! That's all!
But this, of course, is only my opinion.
[/quote]

There is need for a pro-life community who accepts vocations over 35. There is also need for a pro-life community that takes post-abortion women. The others don't do that, as far as I know. The Sisters of Life won't accept a widow or annullee with children unless a daughter(s) enter with her. They also require a college degree. Part of the Holy Innocents' charism has the sisters attending the University of Tennessee at Knoxville to be a witness to the students. We plan for the sisters to have an apartment-convent in one of the on-campus apartment towers. There are two abortuaries within walking distance of campus.

Thanks for your honesty--that you're not interested. Responses such as this is what we are looking for. The Holy Ghost works on attraction. The charism is more legit if souls respond before any kind of bishop's approval is sought.

A bishop was consulted about this charism 20 years ago, and now the first foundress has "come to bat". That bishop was the one who asked if there was anything on paper (there wasn't) and if anyone was interested (there wasn't at the time). Now Karen is getting everything down on paper, and is making preparations to approach the canonist, who will talk to the bishop for her.

Since she has to get a year's novitiate, she will be required to meet the bishop face-to-face to make such plans.

[i][/i]If it is just her, she will go to the convents. If others are involved, the sisters will likely be invited to their convent.[i][/i]

Do you see the importance of my posting the link to see if there is interest? Again, thanks for your honest response. Please pray for this project.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='rosamundi' date='27 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1256676314' post='1992294']
I don't think it is true that people don't want to believe you, but entrusting your eternal life to the Lord via a religious community is a deadly serious thing. Especially in regard to a new community, if something isn't clear, people are right to keep asking questions until it becomes clear, or the founder/foundress realises that a point is causing such confusion that there is a need for clarification.

If people keep asking questions, don't take it as a personal attack on you or the charism, but as an opportunity to practice a work of mercy - instructing the ignorant.
[/quote]

Might I remind everyone that I am foundress of a community officially in formation, and that the eternal salvation of souls has been a very deep concern of mine for decades. Everytime I work on the Cloisterite rule, I have to hide my head due to the unworthiness I feel when I'm in God's presence at that time. It's really very humbling.

Yes, I do need to hear the questions, and see where we're not being clear. I have tried to make the website as clear as possible, but I scored 94 on the ADD scale, so if I come across as "unfocused" that's why.

Questions are good, but I don't like the vitriol that comes with them. I don't mind "instructing the ignorant." We have 50 founders on our two yahoo groups, so I'm not the only one involved in new foundations as they're called. However, the founders see how Phatmass treats me, and they're steering clear of it. There's a lot of good stuff out there--wonderful opportunities for ministry and new cloisters.

Thank you Rosamundi for your charity. I pray everyone sits back and takes a deep breath.

Blessings,
Gemma

[tnavarro61]

[quote name='rosamundi' date='28 October 2009 - 05:45 AM' timestamp='1256676314' post='1992294']
I don't think it is true that people don't want to believe you, but entrusting your eternal life to the Lord via a religious community is a deadly serious thing. Especially in regard to a new community, if something isn't clear, people are right to keep asking questions until it becomes clear, or the founder/foundress realises that a point is causing such confusion that there is a need for clarification.

If people keep asking questions, don't take it as a personal attack on you or the charism, but as an opportunity to practice a work of mercy - instructing the ignorant.
[/quote]

I agree with rosamundi. I feel questions help things become clearer, it prepares the community for further questions. Questions benefit the asker and the community. It strengthens the community, isn't it?

Edited October 28, 2009 by tnavarro61

[HisChild]

Gemma, I agree with Rosamundi in that I don't personally read in anyone's posts that they are against you or your work.

You know my personal thoughts about the Cloister Outreach site, which is not a reflection of my thoughts of your work itself. With so many founding communities on one site, it almost looks like you're founding them all, which can be a little confusing for discerners.

In addition, with so much information packed on one website, it can come across as too busy at best and might turn discerners away, who may not want to wade through all the information to find what they're looking for, which I know is not your intent.

I also agree with Rosamundi in that people are wont to ask questions if things are not clear to them. I know from my own reading of most of your site, I still have more questions than answers. So I know if I was feeling that way, others may too. In generosity, perhaps you might want to give posters here the benefit of the doubt and trust that they're asking questions because these things are not clear to them.