The Antichrist Might Be Jewish... Shhh

[mortify]

[quote name='Winchester' date='28 October 2009 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1256737329' post='1992690']
Everyone feels that way, but it's never been tabulated.
[/quote]

cf [u]Leading index of Catholic indicators[/u]

[mortify]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 October 2009 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1256737245' post='1992687']
And from everything you posted here, its clear to me that the Church Fathers are refering to Satan, when speaking of the Anti-Christ, not a human being.

Jim
[/quote]

The Antichrist is a human being, not Satan.

[mortify]

[quote name='Winchester' date='28 October 2009 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1256784658' post='1993083']
St. John spoke literally of him as the anti-Christ using symbolism. There's also other levels of meaning. It does not take away that it is, historically, about Nero.
[/quote]

You need to put down your NAB Bible Commentary

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' date='28 October 2009 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1256784658' post='1993083']
St. John spoke literally of him as the anti-Christ using symbolism. There's also other levels of meaning. It does not take away that it is, historically, about Nero.
[/quote]

This is the way modern liberal theology twist the Traditional Teaching that St. John used Nero as a example of what the Antichrist will be, because Nero was a Antichrist. Saint John used Nero as an example the people of the time would understand. If Saint John were alive in 1942 he would have used Hitler or some other fascist leader of that time, as an example of a Antichrist. It is true that the Apocalypse is historical, as well as universal in time. But St. John did not speak literally of Nero as the Antichrist using symbolism. St. John spoke literally of the Antichrist using Nero as symbolism, or the people's knowledge of Nero, since Nero was a forerunner of Antichrist.

Edited October 29, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 October 2009 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1256737245' post='1992687']
And from everything you posted here, its clear to me that the Church Fathers are refering to Satan, when speaking of the Anti-Christ, not a human being.
Jim
[/quote]

From almost everything he posted, it is clear that the Church Fathers are not referring to Satan.

[quote]"For he, being endued with [b]all the power of the devil[/b], shall not come as a righteous king nor as a legitimate king in subjection to God, but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one . . ."
[/quote]

If he were referring to Satan, it would be as though Irenaeus were saying, "Satan, being endued with all the power of Satan . . ." Unlikely.

[quote]"[b]Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of the Antichrist."[/b][/quote][b]

[/b] The name of the Antichrist? Would it not simply be "Lucifer?" Maybe even "Jack Flash?" It seems as though if presumption of his name is an issue, it really is a human whose acquaintance we've not yet made.

[quote]"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months and will sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending [b]this man[/b] and those who follow him into the lake of fire."
[/quote]

Not "this angel," not "this demon," or "satan," but "this man."

[quote][b]many names can be found possessing the number mentioned, and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved"[/b][/quote]

Irenaeus is here speaking of "the name of the number," the number being 666, of which John said in Revelation, "it is the number of [b]a man.[/b]"

[quote][b]the forerunners of Antichrist, [/b][/quote]

Who was the "forerunner" of the Father of Lies?

~Sternhauser

Edited October 31, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Antigonos]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='26 October 2009 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1256510528' post='1991212']
Satan is not the Anti-Christ.
He may be [i]an[/i] anti-Christ, but the Anti-Christ is/will be an entirely separate entity.
[/quote]

Can you provide a textual reference that states that?

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='24 October 2009 - 11:08 AM' timestamp='1256371697' post='1990590']


[i]but the idea of the anti-Christ coming from the tribe of Dan is possible. The lineages are certainly not traceable these days to my knowledge, but that doesn't mean it won't happen that way. [/i]

Anybody or anything being of the tribe of Dan today is impossible, because the tribe of Dan disappeared in the Sixth Pre-Christian Century, being one of the "Ten Lost Tribes" which were taken into captivity by the Assyrians, and were totally assimilated before the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BC. The only tribal identifications of Jews today are [1] the priestly caste (cohanim), [2] the Temple assistants (levites), both descended from the family of Moses and his brother Aaron [the tribe is a branch of Levi], and the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, which are collectively known as "Israel". Judah, of course, supplied the monarchy in the days of the Davidic Kingdom, and, for Jews, will supply the Messiah. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah.

[mortify]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='07 November 2009 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1257611102' post='1997727']
Anybody or anything being of the tribe of Dan today is impossible, because the tribe of Dan disappeared in the Sixth Pre-Christian Century, being one of the "Ten Lost Tribes" which were taken into captivity by the Assyrians, and were totally assimilated before the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BC.
[/quote]

It's not hard to imagine that the remnants of such a tribe survived after being conquered and were dispersed among other peoples and even among other Jewish tribes. There may very well be Jews today who are unaware of such a descent, and there may even be people of apparent non-Jewish origin who are of such a descent. This note in wikipedia about the "Ten Lost Tribes" might be of some interest but I haven't been able to investigate them so I can't verify the claim:

[color="#0000FF"][i]Brit-Am, sometimes confused with British Israelism, is an organization centered in Jerusalem, and composed of Jews and non-Jews. Brit-Am, like British Israel, identifies the Lost Ten Tribes with peoples of West European descent, but does so from a Jewish perspective quoting both Biblical and Rabbinical sources. The evidence that Brit-Am relies upon is Biblical in the light of Rabbinical Commentary but is supplemented by secular theories which posit the Lost Tribes / Scythian / Cimmerian connection which they then believe to have become various Western European nations.[32] An example of Brit-Am scholarship may be seen from its treatment of Obadiah 1:20[33] where the original Hebrew as understood by Rabbinical Commentators such as Rashi and Abarbanel is referring to the Lost Ten Tribes in France and England.[34] [u]Brit-Am also believes that "Other Israelite Tribes gave rise to elements within Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Wales, France, Holland, and Belgium" and that "The Tribe of Dan is to be found amongst part of the Danish, Irish, and Welsh."[/u][/i][/color]

Edited November 29, 2009 by mortify

[Seven77]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='07 November 2009 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1257611102' post='1997727']
[quote name='Aloysius' date='24 October 2009 - 11:08 AM' timestamp='1256371697' post='1990590']


[i]but the idea of the anti-Christ coming from the tribe of Dan is possible. The lineages are certainly not traceable these days to my knowledge, but that doesn't mean it won't happen that way. [/i]

Anybody or anything being of the tribe of Dan today is impossible, because the tribe of Dan disappeared in the Sixth Pre-Christian Century, being one of the "Ten Lost Tribes" which were taken into captivity by the Assyrians, and were totally assimilated before the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BC. The only tribal identifications of Jews today are [1] the priestly caste (cohanim), [2] the Temple assistants (levites), both descended from the family of Moses and his brother Aaron [the tribe is a branch of Levi], and the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, which are collectively known as "Israel". Judah, of course, supplied the monarchy in the days of the Davidic Kingdom, and, for Jews, will supply the Messiah. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah.
[/quote]

Antigonos, that was what i was thinking; Dan was completely assimilated...in addition, sn't it indicated in Scripture that Dan began to drift away b/c they were seafarers?

Technically,, only members of Judah are Jewish (historically).

[Aloysius]

[quote name='mortify' date='29 November 2009 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1259515549' post='2011089']
It's not hard to imagine that the remnants of such a tribe survived after being conquered and were dispersed among other peoples and even among other Jewish tribes. There may very well be Jews today who are unaware of such a descent, and there may even be people of apparent non-Jewish origin who are of such a descent. This note in wikipedia about the "Ten Lost Tribes" might be of some interest but I haven't been able to investigate them so I can't verify the claim:

[color="#0000FF"][i]Brit-Am, sometimes confused with British Israelism, is an organization centered in Jerusalem, and composed of Jews and non-Jews. Brit-Am, like British Israel, identifies the Lost Ten Tribes with peoples of West European descent, but does so from a Jewish perspective quoting both Biblical and Rabbinical sources. The evidence that Brit-Am relies upon is Biblical in the light of Rabbinical Commentary but is supplemented by secular theories which posit the Lost Tribes / Scythian / Cimmerian connection which they then believe to have become various Western European nations.[32] An example of Brit-Am scholarship may be seen from its treatment of Obadiah 1:20[33] where the original Hebrew as understood by Rabbinical Commentators such as Rashi and Abarbanel is referring to the Lost Ten Tribes in France and England.[34] [u]Brit-Am also believes that "Other Israelite Tribes gave rise to elements within Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Wales, France, Holland, and Belgium" and that "The Tribe of Dan is to be found amongst part of the Danish, Irish, and Welsh."[/u][/i][/color]
[/quote]
So the Antichrist might be Jewish because he's Danish, Irish, or Welsh. got it

O'bama seems like an Irish name. So clearly O'Bama must be Irish. Which means he's probably Jewish. I think I've just proven it!! AHHH