Resurrexi Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='25 October 2009 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1256507888' post='1991185'] I believe unless the Bishop prohibits a person from receiving Communion, the parish priest, and deacons can not, unless they know for certain, that the person should not be receiving. Generally, they only act on the Bishop's word. Certainly, laity acting as EMHC's can not act on their own and refuse a Catholic Holy Communion Jim [/quote] That is completely incorrect. The Code states that "those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy Communion." (CIC, can. 915) The bishop doesn't have to say anything for a minister of holy Communion to deny the Sacrament to someone who is in manifest grave sin. If a pro-abortion politician goes up to receive, it would actually be a violation of canon law for the minister to distribute the Sacrament to him. Edited October 25, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 [quote name='Caritas' date='25 October 2009 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1256509189' post='1991205'] Encouraging a bishop to follow Catholic teaching, as you say, in no way implies that the laity are making Bishop's decisions for them. There is a such thing as Sensus Fidelium [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] The Body of Christ includes the laity. [/quote] The petition which I addressed, did not advise, but demanded, not a particular Bishop, but all of the USCCB. I would've had no problem with the petition, if it merely asked the Bishops to ban Catholic politicians who actively promote abortion. The problem I had is that the petition was nasty in its wording, and demanded the USCCB's prohibit by name, various politicians. Luckily, this petition never made it to the eyes of the mainstream media, or as far as I know. I think it would've done greater harm than good. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 October 2009 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1256512819' post='1991220'] That is completely incorrect. The Code states that "those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy Communion." (CIC, can. 915) [/quote] Correct, but the person has to have been excommunicated formally. This can only be done by the Bishop. Now, I'm not a canon lawyer, so don't take what I say to the bank. This is merely my understanding. There are different levels of excommunication, what you're addressing is the highest form, where the Church, via the Bishop, has excommunicated a person. A politician who has voted for legislation which supports abortion, excommunicates himself, but this level of excommunication, the lowest form, is taken upon himself not anyone else. To remove this level of excommunication, all a person has to do is repent and go to confession. The higher level you're referring to, requires the Bishop or Pope, to lift the excommunication. I believe a parish priest can take it upon himself to refuse communion to a person, but it would be rare. I heard of a case where a priest refuse Holy Communion to a known Satanist. In the case of pro-choice politicians, I don't know of any. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='25 October 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1256512958' post='1991222'] The petition which I addressed, did not advise, but demanded, not a particular Bishop, but all of the USCCB. I would've had no problem with the petition, if it merely asked the Bishops to ban Catholic politicians who actively promote abortion. The problem I had is that the petition was nasty in its wording, and demanded the USCCB's prohibit by name, various politicians. Luckily, this petition never made it to the eyes of the mainstream media, or as far as I know. I think it would've done greater harm than good. Jim [/quote] Do you have a link to a copy of the petition? Has that been provided and I've missed it? I think if your going to make all these claims of it being this or that. You should allow us to see the document ourselves to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='25 October 2009 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1256513536' post='1991226'] Correct, but the person has to have been excommunicated formally. This can only be done by the Bishop.[/quote] That's not true at all. Excommunicated persons are only one class of persons who are canonically forbidden to receive Communion. The other two groups of persons forbidden from receiving the most holy Sacrament are those under interdict and those who persist in manifest grave sin. (CIC, can. 915). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 October 2009 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1256513810' post='1991228'] That's not true at all. Excommunicated persons are only one class of persons who are canonically forbidden to receive Communion. The other two groups of persons forbidden from receiving the most holy Sacrament are those under interdict and those who persist in manifest grave sin. (CIC, can. 915). [/quote] I understand, but I'm talking about formally prohibiting a person from receiving Holy Communion as in the case of pro-choice Catholic politicians. The laity can not, certainly, not an EMHC. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 October 2009 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1256513790' post='1991227'] Do you have a link to a copy of the petition? Has that been provided and I've missed it? I think if your going to make all these claims of it being this or that. You should allow us to see the document ourselves to judge. [/quote] I can't, I was banned from the website, which is the subject of this thread. Also, I believe the moderators eventually shut down the thread, because it got too heated. I was banned by that time however. Jim Edited October 25, 2009 by JimR-OCDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caritas Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 [quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='25 October 2009 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1256514810' post='1991235'] I can't, I was banned from the website, which is the subject of this thread. Also, I believe the moderators eventually shut down the thread, because it got too heated. I was banned by that time however. Jim [/quote] Is this it? http://www.pewsitter.com/petition/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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