Disgusting.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='apparently' date='28 October 2009 - 07:02 AM' timestamp='1256734929' post='1992667']
[url="http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Catholic/2000/10/Surprise-Halloweens-Not-A-Pagan-Festivalafter-All.aspx"]My link[/url]

All Saints Day was originally celebrated in May
[url="http://www.ehow.com/halloween/"][/url]
[/quote]
You are correct. All Saints Sunday is still celebrated, as it always has been, on the Sunday following Pentecost in the Byzantine Churches.

[url="http://www.byzcath.org/index.php/resources-mainmenu-63/2010-liturgical-calendar-mainmenu-123"]Byzantine Liturgical Calendar for 2010[/url]

[Varg]

[quote name='Winchester' date='28 October 2009 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1256742044' post='1992728']
Yes, the Pagan, because Pagan is a monolithic religion. All pagans agreed on their calendars. Right.

There is no "The Pagan" anything because pagan is a term referring to many, many different religions.
[/quote]
Very well, you're correct. My mistake. It's the new year in Brythonic and Celtic countries.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Varg

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' date='28 October 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1256758416' post='1992858']
Very well, you're correct. My mistake. It's the new year in Brythonic and Celtic countries.
[/quote]
Now I feel petty. Thanks a lot.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Varg' date='28 October 2009 - 06:52 AM' timestamp='1256727178' post='1992640']
The Vikings knew a thing or two about it as well. The first thing they did when they came to Britain was destroy a monastery.
[/quote]
How courageous.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Maximilianus' date='28 October 2009 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1256761792' post='1992894']
How courageous.
[/quote]
Lots of the monks were high level! Quivering Palm wreaked havoc amongst the vikings.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Winchester' date='28 October 2009 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1256761995' post='1992896']
Lots of the monks were high level! Quivering Palm wreaked havoc amongst the vikings.
[/quote]

Sadly, they were no match for the tireless and mighty rage of the Vikings.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Varg' date='28 October 2009 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1256738263' post='1992700']
I've never met an Irish person with red hair.
[/quote]
That must be one big ocean that runs between the 'mainland' and the ol Emerald Isle, eh?

[Varg]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='28 October 2009 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1256766500' post='1992921']
That must be one big ocean that runs between the 'mainland' and the ol Emerald Isle, eh?
[/quote]
Ah, you're right that was a stupid thing to say. What I mean is that there seems to be the normal amount of gingernuts in Ireland.

[Mark of the Cross]

We had a church become a fish & chip shop. I'm not going to say one word to people who like fish & chips!

[MithLuin]

The topic of this thread does not surprise me, because I have been to Rome.

For those who were asking for clarification of the topic, that is reasonable. After all, it depends where and when we're talking. The missionary/martyrs who converted the Germanic tribes by going head-to-head with their local gods often cut down sacred trees to build churches. Sometimes the locals became Christians; other times they killed the man for his presumption. They were very straightforward in expressing themselves, either way, so you could say it sorted itself out eventually. Conversion by zealous (but solitary) monks seems much preferable (to me, anyway) to conversion by conquering army.

But this was hundreds of years after the 'early Christians' so does not apply. Back to ancient Rome....

As has already been pointed out, many government buildings that had been used as pagan shrines were converted to Christian churches upon the Empire's adoption of Christianity as the official religion. If you're going to have a state religion, and the state is going to own the places of worship, than this is how that should play out. While one could certainly argue against state religion (possibly even on those grounds), it must be kept in mind that that idea is a fairly modern concept and hadn't been thought up by the Romans yet. They had some idea of religious tolerance, but saw nothing wrong with having a state religion.

Because of this situation, the oft-persecuted early Christians did not have large public buildings which they used as gathering places. The closest they had to sacred space were the tombs of the martyrs in the catacombs, and (as these were literally the burial places of fellow Christians), they cannot be said to have co-opted them from anyone else.

The Pantheon in Rome was, not surprisingly, devoted to a pantheon of Roman gods. Post-Constantine, it was converted into a Christian church. Today, it is a famous tourist attraction because of its fancy dome. But it is important to note that the pagan --> Christian conversion of the structure occurred [i]after[/i] the religion of the people of Rome was officially changed from pagan to Christian. Religion was a communal activity, not strictly a personal choice in those days. The leader got to choose, and sometimes other religions would be tolerated, but there [i]was[/i] an official religion. From the fourth century onward, that was Christianity for the Roman Empire (or what became of it).

The church of Santa Maria Sopra Minerva (Mary over Minerva) right across the way from the Pantheon was built on the site of a shrine to Minerva. But as construction began on this [i]gothic[/i] church in 13th century, none of Minerva's followers could be reached for comment. A Christian chapel/church had been on the site since the 8th century, but again, this was well after the cult of Minerva had dwindled away. It is the nature of an ancient city that it is built in layers, with the new being built over top of the old. That's why it's so hard to build a subway tunnel anywhere in Rome - you hit ruins wherever you go.

San Clemente is built over (well, next to) the site of a former temple to Mithras. What's cool about this is that you can visit the excavation, so you can see the modern church (well, 12th century isn't particularly [i]modern[/i], but...), and then go downstairs to the 4th century (post-Constantine) church. The 3rd century temple of Mithras is next door and partially destroyed. But, interestingly enough, a Christian community was thought to have met in the house [i]before[/i] the cult of Mithras took it over. So...who really commandeered whose sacred space?


As for redheads, the population at large has only 1-2% with red hair. But, according to our favorite online resource:
[quote]Today, red hair is most commonly found at the western fringes of Europe; it is associated particularly (though not primarily) with the people located in the United Kingdom and in Ireland.

Redheads constitute approximately four percent of the European population. Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads, as 13 percent of the population has red hair and approximately 40 percent carries the recessive redhead gene. Ireland has the second highest percentage; as many as 10 percent of the Irish population have red, auburn, or strawberry blond hair. It is thought that up to 46 percent of the Irish population carries the recessive redhead gene. Red hair reaches frequencies of up to 10 percent in Wales.

Red-hair is found commonly amongst Ashkenazi Jewish populations.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair]Wikipedia[/url][/quote]

So, yes, there is more red hair in Ireland, but only if you're comparing them to the rest of the world, and not Scotland or Wales.