Young-Earth Creationism

[Jesus_lol]

how about the fact that there did not use to be so many different kind of dogs? there was a forced sort of evolution on domestic pets, trough selective breeding. same thing happens in nature but generally at a slower pace.

haha you are familiar with the paltry proofs? which ones, the ones that actually involve looking at the earth around you?
"The bible has told me in complex code that the sky is actually a bright pink colour."
"umm, no its actually blue, i looked"
"pah! what a weak argument, actually looking at the objects in question! i can answer it all from inside this room with this book! therefore my proof is stronger"

ridiculous.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='21 October 2009 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1256188533' post='1989492']
Apo...it is extremely difficult to respect the Catholic position when they basically say, "just accept whatever form of creation or evolution you desire with certain safeguards".
[/quote]
You are - of course - welcome to hold a divergent opinion, but Catholics are permitted to believe in theistic evolution.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='22 October 2009 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1256193921' post='1989549']
and in short... While I believe in a young-earth and while I believe evolution is a crock of... well you know, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to hell because of it. I might be going to hell for other things, but not this, and certainly not for having half of a brain stem or whatever it is one must be missing for disregarding a modern scientific theory.

Honestly, I don't think this debate is high enough on God's list of concerns for Him to go around slapping people

the end


[/quote]
Definitely

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='22 October 2009 - 07:49 AM' timestamp='1256194189' post='1989553']
I reach brother, I really do. +1

You are not Herbert.
[/quote]
Awesome.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='21 October 2009 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1256188960' post='1989497']
You conclude wrong. And I assume by this you take the entire Gospel of John literally as well?
[/quote]
You are right Cmom, because the word "day" is polyvalent.

[Mr.Cat]

“Facts are empirical data, objective verifiable observations.” “A scientific theory is a well supported body of interconnected statements that explains observations and can be used to make testable predictions.” Evolution could thus be described as “fact” and “theory”.

“[i]Creationism[/i]” and even “[i]Intelligent Design[/i]” are not science, and neither has any kind of empirical evidence to support its claims. Scientists, Courts, and even the Catholic Church keep affirming that it cannot be considered science in any degree.



"According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the “Big Bang” and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life."

"The origin of the human species is in Africa* about 150,000 years ago" and that "Catholic theology affirms that that the emergence of the first members of the human species ([i]whether as individuals or in populations[/i]) represents an event that is not susceptible of a purely natural explanation and which can appropriately be attributed to divine intervention."

*[i]South-Eastern Coast of Africa[/i]

Edited October 22, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 October 2009 - 02:40 AM' timestamp='1256197216' post='1989569']
You are - of course - welcome to hold a divergent opinion, but Catholics are permitted to believe in theistic evolution.
[/quote]


Apo....I'll say it again because things need to be repeated to push people to check things out. THE FORMATION OF EVE out of Adam's side is simply impossible to reconcile with "theistic evolution". He put Adam to sleep and a short time later, THERE SHE WAS! Kindly stop to consider that in a battle, one does not survive long by professing neutrality and trying to straddle the boundary, unarmed and confused between two opposing lines of fire. The Lord would say to you, get a grip Apo, [i]"How long halt ye between two opinions?" [/i](1 Kings 18:21). You only have two choices....either we evolved or we were created. The idea to combine the two and say God USED evolution to make everything is absurd and out of His character---and as the title to a book I have reads, : "Evolution: The Fossils say, NO!"

[Arpy]

How is Eve's creation impossible to reconcile with theistic evolution? If that verse is to be taken literally, all it means is that God specially intervened in the process of evolution to create her, as he might have done with Adam.

Evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. It could be that evolution puttered along for 15 billion years, and then God intervened to create man however many thousands of years ago.

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' date='22 October 2009 - 04:33 AM' timestamp='1256204006' post='1989590']
"Facts are empirical data, objective verifiable observations." "A scientific theory is a well supported body of interconnected statements that explains observations and can be used to make testable predictions." Evolution could thus be described as "fact" and "theory".

"[i]Creationism[/i]" and even "[i]Intelligent Design[/i]" are not science, and neither has any kind of empirical evidence to support its claims. Scientists, Courts, and even the Catholic Church keep affirming that it cannot be considered science in any degree.



"According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the "Big Bang" and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life."

"The origin of the human species is in Africa* about 150,000 years ago" and that "Catholic theology affirms that that the emergence of the first members of the human species ([i]whether as individuals or in populations[/i]) represents an event that is not susceptible of a purely natural explanation and which can appropriately be attributed to divine intervention."

*[i]South-Eastern Coast of Africa[/i]
[/quote]

Dear C-Cat,


Explosions produce DISORDER! And when Humpty Dumpty fell over the ledge, no amount of evolution was going to put him back together again. That a BIG BANG created the ORDER we see all around us is the height of insanity. Theistic evolutionists[size="2"][font="Arial"] simply refuse to allow God the glory to suddenly and spectacularly create, as in "Let there be light" (Gen 1:3) and "He spake and it was [i]done."[/i] (Ps 33:9). No slow or sporadic arrival of light, man or animal is ever alluded to, but rather He would laugh at such slowpoke notions! Moreover, as you may know, ALL theories of evo require that there was some sort of glob of material somewhere out there, and later on it exploded. However, the Lord specifically states that He did not NEED any material substance to begin with, but that the breath of His mouth was enough. "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen, were NOT MADE of things which do appear." (Heb 11:3). Again, the Lord tells us that the things which we now see were [i]not[/i] made out of any pre-existing materials whatsoever! Why don't you just BELIEVE Him?????
[/font][/size]
The greatest scientist in the universe, the VERY one who created all things, "sits in the heavens and LAUGHS" (Ps 2:4) at statements such as yours ("intelligent design is not science") that rob Him of His glory. He "intelligently designed" every single thing and no puny opinion of man will ever change that, including yours.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Stormstopper

[cmotherofpirl]

And what I meant is that the fossil record does not in any way demonstrate any [i]transitional [/i] forms whatsoever---in that we might see the slow "migration" of one animal into another, or the increasing complexity of another. A lion, for example, has always been a lion. I am familiar with the paltry proofs some submit for "looking at bones and seeing how evolution has changed them" as you say. If you are talking about variation in species, that is not an argument because, for example, there are many types of dogs. If you are referring to something else where evolution has supposedly worked its magic, then give us an example.
[/quote]
The fossils of horses show a slow and twisting evolutionary change over millennia.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='22 October 2009 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1256229862' post='1989658']
Dear C-Cat,


Explosions produce DISORDER! And when Humpty Dumpty fell over the ledge, no amount of evolution was going to put him back together again. That a BIG BANG created the ORDER we see all around us is the height of insanity. Theistic evoliutionists[size="2"][font="Arial"] simply refuse to allow God the glory to suddenly and spectacularly create, as in "Let there be light" (Gen 1:3) and "He spake and it was [i]done."[/i] (Ps 33:9). No slow or sporadic arrival of light, man or animal is ever alluded to, but rather He would laugh at such slowpoke notions! Moreover, as you may know, ALL theories of evo require that there was some sort of glob of material somewhere out there, and later on it exploded. However, the Lord specifically states that He did not NEED any material substance to begin with, but that the breath of His mouth was enough. "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that the things which are seen, were NOT MADE of things which do appear." (Heb 11:3). Again, the Lord tells us that the things which we now see were [i]not[/i] made out of any pre-existing materials whatsoever! Why don't you just BELIEVE Him?????
[/font][/size]
The greatest scientist in the universe, the VERY one who created all things, "sits in the heavens and LAUGHS" (Ps 2:4) at statements such as yours ("intelligent design is not science") that rob Him of His glory. He "intelligently designed" every single thing and no puny opinion of man that will ever change that, including yours.
[/quote]
You really do rant on don't you. Did it ever occur to you that the Big Band occurred when God said "Let there be Light"?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='22 October 2009 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1256229862' post='1989658']
Dear C-Cat,


Explosions produce DISORDER!
[/quote]
THIS is the basis of your grand proof? Ridiculous. Don't support a scientific conclusion with some quasi-philosophical croutons.
On an atomic level there's nothing at all disordered about explosions. If you take chaos theory into account, especially so.

Edited October 22, 2009 by Nihil Obstat

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='22 October 2009 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1256229892' post='1989659']
And what I meant is that the fossil record does not in any way demonstrate any [i]transitional [/i]forms whatsoever---in that we might see the slow "migration" of one animal into another, or the increasing complexity of another. A lion, for example, has always been a lion. I am familiar with the paltry proofs some submit for "looking at bones and seeing how evolution has changed them" as you say. If you are talking about variation in species, that is not an argument because, for example, there are many types of dogs. If you are referring to something else where evolution has supposedly worked its magic, then give us an example.
[/quote]
The fossils of horses show a slow and twisting evolutionary change over millennia.
[/quote]


Dear C-mother,

You are completely mistaken. As a matter of fact, it is precisely because the fossil record does NOT show the "Slowwww" change of the horse, that evo's are forced to revert to yet another comical theory; namely that it happend so FAST we must have missed it. For example, [i]"The evolution of the foot mechanisms in the horse proceeded by rapid and abrupt changes rather than gradual ones. The transition from the the form of foot shown by the miniature "Eohippus" to the larger "Miohippus" was so abrupt that it even left no record in the fossil deposits." [/i](Quoted from one of the famous evo's, as noted in, "Evolution: The Fossils Say, NO!")

[Winchester]

How is the mechanism of creation important to salvation?

[Stormstopper]

[quote name='Arpy' date='22 October 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1256229440' post='1989657']
How is Eve's creation impossible to reconcile with theistic evolution? If that verse is to be taken literally, all it means is that God specially intervened in the process of evolution to create her, as he might have done with Adam.

Evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive as you suggest. It could be that evolution puttered along for 15 billion years, and then God intervened to create man however many thousands of years ago.
[/quote]


Arpy,

At the outset, you are PRESUPPOSING evolution is true by saying if the rib incident is to be taken literally, it means God intervened with the process of evolution. You have read your conclusion of evolution BACK INTO the text, and then, like Yankee Doodle, stuck a feather in your hat and called it macaroni.
You haven't for a moment considered that God means what He says and says what He means! This continual and ludicrous bent to compromise and "spiritualize" every word of God to conform to the dictates of a man-centered world-view, is horrific.

Contrary to your opinion, creation and evo ARE indeed mutually exclusive, if only for the reason that if evo were true, the fossil record should contain NOTHING BUT transitional forms. Happily, the fossil record confirm explicitly the predictions of the creationist---there ARE no transitional forms (only fully formed creatures) and thus, evo is a fairy tale for adults. THAT is a scientific fact, as opposed to the person before on this thread who said creationism is not "science". Furthermore, evolutionism is a religious philosophy which governs the teaching, ideologies and moral structure of civilization in the public schools, so it is hypocritical to accuse creationism of being "religious" when evo is equally as guilty. "Religion[i]" [u]means[/u] [/i] "worldview". And Hitler, by the way, a wayward, validly baptized Catholic/evolutionist, used the ideology of evo ("namely, "survival of the fittest") to destroy that portion of humanity he deemed as weak and disposable.

[Winchester]

No, he made a point showing that the two are not mutually exclusive. Don't despair, 95+, even literate folk have trouble with that one.