Livin_the_MASS Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 No, I still love ya anyways! God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 popepius, i feel ya bro, i guess i'm pretty cranky too today. i am glad u had my back on that tho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 And people say all I want to do is argue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Apr 5 2004, 11:29 PM'] And people say all I want to do is argue.... [/quote] i think your phatmass name kinda gives people the wrong idea, right off the bat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Sorry PhatCatholic, Mods you can delete this thread. God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 (edited) Jason's just a good Catholic Church zealot, we Protestants have been noticing them forever...grin. He would be the one with the torch back in the middle ages, with ME on the woodpile. Thank you Wycliffe, Huss, Calvin, and Luther, and Azusa street and the Holy Spirit protecting me, thank you. Edited April 6, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Burn baby burn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Good thing we enlisted the Germans to protect us, just as the Pope wants Swiss/Germans to protect HIM too, I guess the Italians learned what side WINS those battles where force is needed. Grin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 You got lucky. Had it not been for Fredrick's obstinance, Charles' bad decision, and Riechealeu's influence on France's decision to attack Austria instead of Germany........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 [quote]You got lucky. Had it not been for Fredrick's obstinance, Charles' bad decision, and Riechealeu's influence on France's decision to attack Austria instead of Germany........... [/quote] I guess God was watching out for us, and He still is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Somebody was watching out for you, though I have my doubts that it was God. Had those men acted differently, the reformation could have been suppressed and the Church could have (and already was) reformed itself without having to react against the prots. There were abuses, to be sure, that gave some apparent credibility to the "reformers" (or revolutionaries as I prefer to call them). But the Church was resolving these issues. By separating themselves from the Mystical Body of Christ, they cut themselves off from the vessel of our Salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 (edited) [quote] God. Had those men acted differently, the reformation could have been suppressed and the Church could have (and already was) reformed itself without having to react against the prots.[/quote] Yeah, right. And I have some swampland in Florida for sale too... EVERY time some CATHOLIC DARES to question the AUTHORITY of the leadership, no matter how corrupt they are, they get slammed. History shows that over and over, the leaders of the Catholic Church are more interested in protecting their temporal POWER than Christianity. Look at the most recent example, the coverups of the sexual scandals. That one is playing out now in front of our eyes. If it were NOT for the laity and lawyers, NO change would have happened, just more protection of the clergy, and the same old same old. Now if you want to look at Ablerto Calvi, and the Vatican bank scandals, Banco Ambrosio, we have another one that shows the lengthts, including murder of a sitting Pope [ that one is interesting to say the least ] but that is hard for most to follow, since most can't understand, nor want to understand massive international financial issues. [quote]By separating themselves from the Mystical Body of Christ, they cut themselves off from the vessel of our Salvation.[/quote] So, the ones NOT doing corruption are cut off from salvation, and the corrupt ones were saved? Of course, NOT ONE corrupt member of the Catholic Church was excommunicated, just the uncorrupt ones were.... OK, that makes a lot of sense, NOT. Edited April 6, 2004 by Bruce S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 6 2004, 09:26 AM'] Yeah, right. And I have some swampland in Florida for sale too... EVERY time some CATHOLIC DARES to question the AUTHORITY of the leadership, no matter how corrupt they are, they get slammed. History shows that over and over, the leaders of the Catholic Church are more interested in protecting their temporal POWER than Christianity. Look at the most recent example, the coverups of the sexual scandals. That one is playing out now in front of our eyes. If it were NOT for the laity and lawyers, NO change would have happened, just more protection of the clergy, and the same old same old. Now if you want to look at Ablerto Calvi, and the Vatican bank scandals, Banco Ambrosio, we have another one that shows the lengthts, including murder of a sitting Pope [ that one is interesting to say the least ] but that is hard for most to follow, since most can't understand, nor want to understand massive international financial issues. So, the ones NOT doing corruption are cut off from salvation, and the corrupt ones were saved? Of course, NOT ONE corrupt member of the Catholic Church was excommunicated, just the uncorrupt ones were.... OK, that makes a lot of sense, NOT. [/quote] How much you want for that swampland? Look, the issue here is that you are not able to distinguish between what is and is not Church teaching. The Vatican Bank Scandal has nothing whatsoever to do with Church teaching. The scandals don't either, insofar as nothing was being taught. It was the failure (and a masive failure it was) on the part of the hierarchy to act to be sure. But how can you say that somehow the Church's teaching has been corrupted by this? The only thing affected in this case has been the Church's credibility in the public eye (you are a case in point). And as to your final point: the fact of the matter is that the so called "reformers", while some perhaps had a couple of good points pertaining to abuses, did in fact corrupt the constant teaching of the Church with novelties never before seen in Church history. In so doing, they separated themselves from Holy Mother Church. That is why they were excommunicated. Compare the writings of Erasmus, who was a true reformer during the same time period, with Luther, who was a revolutionary. There is a marked difference between the two and in fact Erasmus and Luther exchanged letters, which are very interesting.. Erasmus sought to reform many of the same abuses as Luther, but did so without corrupting a single doctrine. As a result, Erasmus contributed to a legitimate reform and Luther lead milions of souls away from the Church founded by Christ. But don't take my word for it. Read it for yourself. You will see a proper way of going about it, compared to the very wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Jason, it looks like your thread is going to live on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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