Protestantism Vs. The Bible

[Brother Adam]

[b]beauracratic, legalistic, temple laden, theologically obtuse, priest controlled[/b]

It seems it is only authority you are fighting.

[quote]That is what he had to contend with, and the Catholic Church has just reconstituted a parallel to the Jewish Temple/Priest system. Lock stock and barrel.[/quote]

The harmony between the Church and the Temple will be significant as Christ is fulfilling the Old Covenant and giving us the New.

[quote]Jews - Catholics[/quote]

What are you trying to infer here?

[quote]High Priest - Pope[/quote]

Incorrect, Jesus Christ is recognized as the high priest in the New Covenant. The Pope is viewed as the vicar of Christ. A representative for the high priest. There is a significant difference.

[quote]Daily Sacrifice Continual Blood Needed - Same [/quote]

Oh yeah, Protestant automated answer number 1668.

[quote]Scribes/Pharisees - Cannon Law/Magisterium[/quote]

There was leadership in both covenants, and some curropt leadership in both covenants, no one denies this. However, is coming up with all the answers by yourself and declaring them to be the best possible way really the answer?

[quote]Temple Riches - Vatican Wealth[/quote]

If your trying to infer something about the money-changers your way off base. Last quarter the vatican had a deficit.

[quote]Temple Guards/Police - Swiss Guards[/quote]

lol. Grin.

[quote]Holy of Holies - St. Peters[/quote]

Now your getting sorry.

[quote]Purgatory - Purgatory[/quote]

lol.

[quote]Monastic orders - Monastic Orders

No Sex Essenes - No Sex Religious Orders[/quote]

Right, like in the BIble? It's better to be single? Hrm? But no one is forced into singleness? Hrm?

[Justified Saint]

[quote]and what does the next verse say?

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man.

Read it in context. This first passage is speaking about falling to temptation -- not falling from salvation.[/quote]

A non sequitur, as Archangel as shown.

[quote]I'm not sure what you are attempting to say here? He doesn't fear losing salvation, that is something you are placing in the passage yourself. Again, looking at the surrounding context, in a previous verse he says "I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings." Paul is speaking of the blessings he will receive - the rewards. The blessings can not be 'losing salvation'. That would be a curse.[/quote]

No, the context is clearly talking about salvation. Again, notice the words that are being used: he says to win [b]not[/b] a perishable crown but an [u][b]imperishable[/b][/u] one.

Match this with 2 Timonthy 4:6-8

[quote] For I am already being poured out like a libation, and the time of my departure is at hand.  [b]I have competed well; I have finished the race; [u]I have kept the faith[/u][/b].  [b][u]From now on[/u] [i][u]the crown of righteousness awaits me[/u][/i][/b], which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and [b]not only to me[/b], [b][u]but to all who have longed for his appearance[/u][/b].[/quote]

Indeed, the crown of life/crown of righteousness/the impershiable crown is continually referred to as [b]eternal life [/b]throughout the Bible. And how else could we not reach that conclusion? Why is Paul talking about [b]longing for the appearance of the Lord[/b] and [b]keeping faith [/b]as a condition of receiving the crown of righteousness? The believer of eternal security says this condition isn't possible, in fact it doesn't exist because one's faith is eternally secure from the moment they believe. Yet Paul in this passage says something quite differently, he says that keeping the faith and longing for his appearance will secure the crown.

[quote]Yes, a word of encouragement. The suffering we have with him now is worth it because of the hope we have in the future.[/quote]

Ah of course, words of encouragement. I don't know how many times I have heard that one used to dismiss a passage entirely. But there is a much more to this passage and chapter than your quick dismissal would suggest.

Later in the chapter we find in verse 36: As it is written: "For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered." Paul is quoting Psalm 44 the last of which reads: "Rise up, help us! Redeem us as your love demands." Christ stood willingly as a slain lamb and His Father redeemed him for his faithfulness, God [b]promises[/b] to do the same for us. The significance of our sufferings and faithfulness to God can't be minimized and one can't avoid the clear condition that verse 17 is putting forth.

"and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, [b]if only we suffer with him[/b] [b][u]so that we may also be glorified with him[/u][/b]." Romans 8:17

This verse we find embedded in a passage which is often used as a prooftext by some for eternal security. But the placement of this verse challenges that notion. Rather the conditions of salvation are highlighted and the inevitable result of God's justifying and saving power and what eternal life actually means is illustrated.

[quote]Exactly, because it directly before says "You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"-- and he was called a friend of God." So thus, because of Abraham's true faith, as opposed to not really believing, it was counted to him as righteousness. The fulfillment of his belief was the works that resulted. And in the same way, Rahab was justified by her action because it completed her heart that was already there.[/quote]

I would direct you to Brother Adam's post above.

[quote]Imagine that! Don't forget to look at Paul's words which agree with James message when he says in Romans 4:2-4 "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due." What works we do have are already due God and worth nothing. All our works are "filthy rags". And so thus, as Abraham believed God and was counted as righteousness, so grace comes down upon us and even gives us the faith to believe in Him who set us free (cf. Ephesians 2:8-9).[/quote]

Ah, of course because as it says "[b]he would have something to boast about[/b]" if they were his [b]own[/b] works. But the children of God perform the works that God has prepared for us (Eph 2:10). Not our own works of self-righteousness but rather the works that the loving son does out of love for his loving Father. This is all made possible by the power, the grace, and the gifts of God. They are then not [b]our[/b] works but the works of Christ through us. It is because of this that Paul says we can [b]boast[/b].

[quote][b]In Christ Jesus then, I have reason to boast [u]in what pertains to God[/u]. [/b] Romans 15:17[/quote]

Indeed, context does help.

[Justified Saint]

Sorry you totally missed the Gospel message there Bruce. Rather it was the hypocrisy of the Jews and the lack of faith from the Jews and the sinfulness of the Jews that Jesus was fighting. It was the heart of people that made all the things you listed "legalistic", "formalized", and "temple laden".