Cow of Shame Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='13 October 2009 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1255439520' post='1984528'] " um like organized religion is so whack. like just have a personal relationship with jesus ok ?. like jesus is my homeboy. ok ? ok ? like i read the bible and i know what it says and i interpit it. so like dont tell me about the pope and the cults of organised religion. i'm totally getting raptured before the trib. ok ? ok ? like wont you get saved ? do you really want to go hell ? ok ? ok ? like my church is a old supermarket but we have rockin bands there. like dont you want to be saved ? ok ? ok ? like catholics and their false religoin are like so not saved. like dont you know that ? ok ? ok ? [/quote] Is this the equivalent of a Punk'd post or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think it's correct to say that just about every religion you can think of is organized. It depends on who's organizing it and how it's organized. Religion is the way by which one binds himself to his god (be it God or someone/thing else). We are human and are therefore made to be subjugated to someone/thing. Whatever that is and however one chooses to approach it is, in essence, their religion. I chose Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='13 October 2009 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1255467774' post='1984742'] I think it's correct to say that just about every religion you can think of is organized. It depends on who's organizing it and how it's organized. Religion is the way by which one binds himself to his god (be it God or someone/thing else). We are human and are therefore made to be subjugated to someone/thing. Whatever that is and however one chooses to approach it is, in essence, their religion. I chose Catholicism. [/quote] Can we take the above presentation as our definition of 'organized religion'? How about atheism? Can we consider it as a form of 'organized religion'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='reyb' date='13 October 2009 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1255475933' post='1984819'] Can we take the above presentation as our definition of 'organized religion'? How about atheism? Can we consider it as a form of 'organized religion'? [/quote] I'd argue that, in theory, yes, we could. Whoever (or whatever) you're giving honor, respect, or even glory to (he/she/it not being God), you are by so doing, making him/her/it your god. How you go about living that out in your daily life is arguably (from my standpoint) your "religion". It's not a conventional notion, I know. I'm just philosophizing. Edited October 13, 2009 by iheartjp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I mean why do you need a structure, body of dogma, rituals etc. to know God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='13 October 2009 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1255479842' post='1984843'] I mean why do you need a structure, body of dogma, rituals etc. to know God? [/quote] Why would God want disorganized religion? Presuming God exists, He'd want us to know the Truth about Him, and how to we should worship and serve Him. Why would God wish millions of different conflicting ideas about Him and how to follow Him? Truth is objective, not relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Is it neccesary that the creator would want his creation to know, love and serve him? For what purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_late Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) If you take as a given that the Creator is good and loves his creations, why would those creations NOT want to know, love, and serve him? In that case, some help in the form of teachers, leaders, rituals, etc. would be a gift. Just throwing that out there. I don't think I can "prove" this to you. edit to say: Hope that saying I don't think I can prove it sounds snarky. I am not trying to make fun of your question. I just don't know what to do with what sounds like an overwhelming need for proof. What would proof look like to you? Is there anything that would qualify as proof? Edited October 14, 2009 by little_miss_late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='13 October 2009 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1255483285' post='1984876'] Is it neccesary that the creator would want his creation to know, love and serve him?[/quote] Necessary? It seems to be as then what would be the purpose of creating us? Entertainment? The football game ended early and he had nothing to do for awhile? If you want a purpose behind it, then it seems necessary. [quote]For what purpose?[/quote] To love him and serve him in this world and the next. He wanted beings to love and serve him with a choice and not be loved by a bunch of robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_late Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='13 October 2009 - 09:12 AM' timestamp='1255439520' post='1984528'] " um like organized religion is so whack. like just have a personal relationship with jesus ok ?. like jesus is my homeboy. ok ? ok ? like i read the bible and i know what it says and i interpit it. so like dont tell me about the pope and the cults of organised religion. i'm totally getting raptured before the trib. ok ? ok ? like wont you get saved ? do you really want to go hell ? ok ? ok ? like my church is a old supermarket but we have rockin bands there. like dont you want to be saved ? ok ? ok ? like catholics and their false religoin are like so not saved. like dont you know that ? ok ? ok ? [/quote] I think this is kind of mean. Personally, I needed some time to sit alone and read the Bible and figure out what my "personal relationship" to God was before I felt brave enough to talk to Catholics I knew or go to church. I am glad I didn't run into anyone who mocked my need to grow in faith before I could consider joining a church. I didn't go to a church in a storefront or tell anyone they were in a cult, but I did sit in a park and listen to some rockin bands on my iPod for a while. It doesn't make me stupid. You know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='13 October 2009 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1255483285' post='1984876'] Is it neccesary that the creator would want his creation to know, love and serve him? For what purpose? [/quote] In your topic starter, it seems you do not agree that an organized religion, which you now seems to present as a group of believers sharing an ‘organized’ ritual, teaching or dogma – meaning, one church out of many, is a possibility and the truth about God can only be found thru that particular ‘organized religion’. Furthermore, it seems you are looking for a reason, if not the very reason why God would ever created us. From where you are leading to an idea that if God truly created us, considering God exists, He created us for his own intentional purposes and that is to serve Him. And self-serving act is not a holy act. Do I get it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='little_miss_late' date='13 October 2009 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1255484487' post='1984899'] If you take as a given that the Creator is good and loves his creations, why would those creations NOT want to know, love, and serve him? [/quote] Wow, I was thinking the exact same thing 20 minutes ago....while grocery shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='reyb' date='13 October 2009 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1255487655' post='1984941'] In your topic starter, it seems you do not agree that an organized religion, which you now seems to present as a group of believers sharing an ‘organized’ ritual, teaching or dogma – meaning, one church out of many, is a possibility and the truth about God can only be found thru that particular ‘organized religion’. Furthermore, it seems you are looking for a reason, if not the very reason why God would ever created us. From where you are leading to an idea that if God truly created us, considering God exists, He created us for his own intentional purposes and that is to serve Him. And self-serving act is not a holy act. Do I get it right? [/quote] Ahhh no, I'm not really trying to argue either way or challenge anyones beliefs. I'm just trying to understand. Yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='13 October 2009 - 07:57 AM' timestamp='1255438676' post='1984527'] I don't know enough about this topic to participate but I'd be interested in anyone that can present positions for and against organized religion. If there is a God then what proofs are there that he would want organized religion? [/quote] Okay so, you are simply asking if God wanted an organized religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yeah. And if the argument for organized religion is based on the bible then how do we know the bible is a reliable source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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