Exhistental Nihilism

[Anomaly]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='31 October 2009 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1257020207' post='1994486']
I'm not answering any questions until you have actually answered what was asked of you. Are you going to actually answer or continue dogging the question?
[/quote]I answered your question.

Moral principles are not based on entirely Objective principles. Neitzsche can no more prove that God doesn't exist, then Aquainis can prove He does. Those of you that are arguing there is truely Objective morality based on the Objective evidence God exists and cannot explain are on the road to want to become Bible Literalists. There remains that final Leap of Faith, that gets you to the other side.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='31 October 2009 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1257044919' post='1994659']
Is that just sweet! I wuvy dove you too.




I made the premise that intelligence can not come from non intelligence.[/QUOTE]

Yep.

[QUOTE]Using the principle of causality[/QUOTE]

Which principle? Are you claiming this is a principle of modern physics?

[QUOTE]which states that you can't get more in the effect than you had in the cause. Backed with empirical evidence that intelligence can only come from intelligence, using AI and parents having a child as examples.[/QUOTE]

That's not empirical evidence for your claim. Even if your examples were sound that would only be empirical evidence that intelligence can come from intelligence.


[QUOTE]Examples you failed to defeat. I also used the non-existence of empirical evidence that intelligence can come from non-intelligence as my evidence that intelligence can not come from non-intelligence.[/QUOTE]

We've been over this.

[QUOTE]And that you have agreed, after failing to provide the overwhelming evidence you said exist to proof otherwise.

We are at the end of the road unless you now provide the evidence you said existed. What has really happened here is that you made that bold claim and now can not prove it, and you would like us all to forget about it, trying to spin it round on me. Well thats not going to happen, and your failure to offer your proof is your crushing defeat.
[/quote]

Good turn around.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Varg' date='22 October 2009 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1256245316' post='1989797']
That's true, but most of the people I speak to about it say that it's less depressing than believing that life is a test designed to see if we're good enough to get rewarded and if we're not good enough then we are punished forever. I kind of agree with them...
[/quote]

First off, unfortunately, as much as you may think so, this is not Christianity. Whoever told you this was wrong, and whoever told them was wrong. It's a gross misrepresentation of everything Christ taught. Christianity is not a stupid test. Christianity is about people, God, and love.

In this whole discussion I'm curious to know how those who do not believe in a God can think something is objectively good.

In christianity, there is no such thing as good AND evil - like separate and distinct substances. There is only one thing - Good. Insomuch that a thing exists it is good: A bird is good because it is a bird. It met those initial goals to exist as a bird. A chair is good, in however it looks, if it fulfills the purpose of being chair. Granite is good insomuch as it remains granite. Being Granite is it's foundational purpose. Evil, on the otherhand, is a destruction of good. Every time we use the word evil it is when something good is broken/destroyed/ruined. It is NOT good that a bird has a broken wing, it ruins the purpose of the wing, and the overall purpose of the bird to fly around and do bird things. It is not good that a man is born blind, or gets leprosy or AIDS. Evil is not a thing unto itself. Evil cannot be a thing, because the purpose of evil is the destruction of good. If pure evil was it's own thing it's main purpose would be to destroy the first good of itself - existence.

Fast Forward. Add free will to the equation. The powers that infinitely separate humans from other animals are consciousness and freewill. We realize there's a reality and we have the ability to enact our will on that reality. Whether we like it or not, enacting our will is a choice between good and evil - between hindering another's purpose, or helping/encouraging them in the purpose. We can break the birds wing or we can let it go. We can help an old man through the door or trip him. We all have the chance to murder. This is inescapable. but we all have the chance to love instead. And this is how true Christians define love - to [i]WILL[/i] the ultimate good of the other, [i]at the expense of the self[/i]. It is NOT about feelings. And it flies directly in the face of self-preservation.


Furthermore, Christ teaches that to love in this way is our actual purpose. [i]It's why we have freewill in the first place[/i].

When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35 and one of them [a scholar of the law] tested him by asking,
36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?"He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."

If you havent. You should read Jesus's Sermon on the Mount. It's not only about morality and just how much we should love, but also about God. And how he is on our side, believe it or not.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm (it's Chapter's 5, 6, and 7.)

Jesus aint playing. For humans it comes down to a choice not directly "good" or "evil" but selfishness vs selflessness. "me" or "everyone else". Anything that tries to argue Jesus's teachings can only do so by arguing in favor of selfishness because Christianity is 100% selflessness. To God, and to fellowman. Not because we are forced to (love can not be forced) but because we choose to. For the love we love with is not our own, it is Jesus's love for us, overflowing into the rest of the world. That sounds fluffy and stupid, but it's the truth. Did you read the Sermon on the Mount? That Shiz is HARD, good luck trying not to be angry in a world without God. The only way we can do it is by first giving ourselves up to God. Grace is the fuel that lets us choose others instead of ourselves even when it hurts.