Exhistental Nihilism

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1256365817' post='1990583']
Spiritual. Emotions with God go deeper than just the biological functions and chemical reactions. But in atheism that's all there is, 'love' is limited to just certain chemical reactions in the brain and body, that cause the person to feel what we call 'love'.
[/quote]


The bio chemical process by which humans experience particular emotions is the same for everybody. It's a measurable, predictable biological function. The experience has the same physical properties. What you mean specifically by claiming that it's more meaningful because for you it's "spiritual" I don't know. Why don't you stop explaining what the atheistic position lacks and explain what your position actually is.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1256365119' post='1990579']


In Atheism we have no creator, no mind no thought put into the creation of existence. There is nothing behind our existence, no force. It just it happened at random over billions, and billions of years. Thus no real objective purpose.
[/quote]


Yep. It's unfortunate when the facts seem to present an unpleasant picture.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hassan' date='24 October 2009 - 04:25 AM' timestamp='1256372727' post='1990591']
The bio chemical process by which humans experience particular emotions is the same for everybody. It's a measurable, predictable biological function. The experience has the same physical properties. What you mean specifically by claiming that it's more meaningful because for you it's "spiritual" I don't know. Why don't you stop explaining what the atheistic position lacks and explain what your position actually is.
[/quote]
Love cannot be reduced to a biological emotion. A junkie with a needle in his vein may feel some euphoric semblance of love and happiness, but that doesn't mean he is experiencing love or happiness. Love is an act of the will, and supernatural love is only possible when we become partakers of the Divine nature through Baptism.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='24 October 2009 - 04:27 AM' timestamp='1256372875' post='1990593']
Yep. It's unfortunate when the facts seem to present an unpleasant picture.
[/quote]

These are the 'facts' of Atheism, not reality. The Atheistic world-view violates the principle of causality, there can't be more in the effect than there was in the cause. Since there is intelligence in the effect, man, there must be intelligence in the cause.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='24 October 2009 - 04:25 AM' timestamp='1256372727' post='1990591']
The bio chemical process by which humans experience particular emotions is the same for everybody. It's a measurable, predictable biological function. The experience has the same physical properties. What you mean specifically by claiming that it's more meaningful because for you it's "spiritual" I don't know. Why don't you stop explaining what the atheistic position lacks and explain what your position actually is.
[/quote]

Ok, lets focus on love. Again in atheism 'love' is limited to just certain chemical reactions in the brain and body, that cause the person to feel what we call 'love'.

But in a Theist reality, Love is far beyond a bio chemical process. The bio chemical process is just an outward sign of the body, of a feeling the soul posses. The bio chemical process is not the 'feeling' itself.

'Love' in atheism is just a a bio chemical process and nothing more.

Love with God is as Saint Paul described it, but it goes further still... because God is love.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,

it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,

it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.

For we know partially and we prophesy partially,

but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.

So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1256393801' post='1990654']
Ok, lets focus on love. Again in atheism 'love' is limited to just certain chemical reactions in the brain and body, that cause the person to feel what we call 'love'.

But in a Theist reality, Love is far beyond a bio chemical process. The bio chemical process is just an outward sign of the body, of a feeling the soul posses. The bio chemical process is not the 'feeling' itself.

'Love' in atheism is just a a bio chemical process and nothing more.

Love with God is as Saint Paul described it, but it goes further still... because God is love.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,

it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,

it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.

For we know partially and we prophesy partially,

but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.

So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
[/quote]

We've had this discussion several times. Every time I ask you for a concrete definition of what you mean by "love" and all your uses of the term, and every time you respond with vague, esoteric responses.

I don't think you know what you mean by your claim, from what I can see you like using this vague argument but are unwilling to flesh it out to an analytically precise proposition.

[Varg]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1256392168' post='1990649']
Since there is intelligence in the effect, man, there must be intelligence in the cause.
[/quote]How?

[Productive Catholic]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 October 2009 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1255381384' post='1984085']
What are your views on exhistential nihilism? (believing that here is no point/deeper meaning to life)
[/quote]

Do you mean of the Jean Paul Sartre type? If so, I'd say although I think it is faulty philosophy, it is at least more honest than the "Since God does not exist, everything is great and free" type of worldview. For an existentialist, if God does not exists life must be forlorn.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='24 October 2009 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1256395112' post='1990660']
We've had this discussion several times. Every time I ask you for a concrete definition of what you mean by "love" and all your uses of the term, and every time you respond with vague, esoteric responses.

I don't think you know what you mean by your claim, from what I can see you like using this vague argument but are unwilling to flesh it out to an analytically precise proposition.
[/quote]

In some ways that is correct, in a twisted way. True Love goes far beyond my or anyone's ability to understand it. One reason is that it can not be measured by the scientific method. It is an eternal truth, but I don't believe you can understand that since you reject all 'eternal truths.'

Love is as St. Paul, King David, and many thousands of other Saints, Prophets, and poets write of it, but far more. Perhaps that is something an atheist mind can never comprehend. 'Love' in that world view is reduce to nothing more than bio chemical processes that cause a person to feel what we call 'love'. Love doesn't actually exist just the bio chemical process.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Varg' date='24 October 2009 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1256401350' post='1990681']
How?
[/quote]

To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction...

[Varg]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1256416663' post='1990756']
To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]
Ah, Newton's third law of motion.

And that pertains how?

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1256416663' post='1990756']
To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction...
[/quote]


That's a different principle than the one you claimed before, but regardless an effect need not be identical in it's attributes/predicates with the cause..

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Varg' date='24 October 2009 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1256418082' post='1990770']
Ah, Newton's third law of motion.

And that pertains how?
[/quote]

That there can't be more in the effect than there was in the cause.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='24 October 2009 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1256419436' post='1990786']
That's a different principle than the one you claimed before, but regardless an effect need not be identical in it's attributes/predicates with the cause..
[/quote]

Yeah I know, I was trying to describe to causality in a quick and easy way. Perhaps it need not be identical, but you still can't have [b]more[/b] in the effect than there was in the cause.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1256423437' post='1990804']
Yeah I know, I was trying to describe to causality in a quick and easy way. Perhaps it need not be identical, but you still can't have [b]more[/b] in the effect than there was in the cause.
[/quote]


Who says it would be more?