Varg Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1256247921' post='1989810'] Having no purpose to your life whatsoever, a life where love does not exist. [/quote]Just...stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 [quote name='Varg' date='22 October 2009 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1256248235' post='1989811'] Just...stop. [/quote] Does this reality of Athiesm disturb you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Nope, it's you getting it so completely wrong that disturbs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Knight o'C, Life purpose is not dependent upon belief in a God. Society was here before we existed, and will likely be here afterwards. We can choose our values based on God, or we can choose our values based on the culture of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1256247921' post='1989810']a life where love does not exist.[/quote] I think this is the essential issue. I cannot look at the world and conclude that there is no meaning, because I see meaning all around me in love: either in seeing love in action by others (e.g., personal charity), or in seeing things that invite me to love (e.g., poverty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='Anomaly' date='23 October 2009 - 07:13 AM' timestamp='1256296434' post='1990183'] Knight o'C, Life purpose is not dependent upon belief in a God. Society was here before we existed, and will likely be here afterwards. We can choose our values based on God, or we can choose our values based on the culture of the group. [/quote] I know that there can be subjective and relative opinions on a purpose for life, without God. But in the end there just opinions not facts, not really real. Just make believe to make a person feel 'good.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1256247921' post='1989810'] O'rly now? Having no purpose to your life whatsoever, a life where love does not exist. That type of 'life' is better than one of purpose, were love does exist, a life which you clearly do not understand? Nor do these people you speak of. [/quote] Love exists without God. It's an emotion. I experience it. It exists in the same sense that happiness, joy, hatred, lust et cetera exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='23 October 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1256350780' post='1990454'] Love exists without God. It's an emotion. I experience it. It exists in the same sense that happiness, joy, hatred, lust et cetera exist. [/quote] I do not believe that man can be truly happy, joyful, or loving apart from God. What man often "feels" as happiness, joy, or love is just a shadow of the real thing which he cannot distinguish because he is blind to the real thing. When man realizes that happiness, joy, and love are inseparable from God, then he realizes that all his supposed happiness, joy, and love are not real unless they arise out of friendship with God. The perfect example of this is lust. Man seeks happiness, joy, and love in the opposite sex, and he finds some semblance of those things, because he sees in another person the image and likeness of God. But if his relationship with that other person is not first motivated by his relationship with God, then he cannot truly love them (because he will be acting with selfish motives), and he cannot be truly happy or joyous (because the creature only makes us happy and joyous when we know the creator). Or, as Stevie Wonder so aptly expressed it, "Are you happy when you stick a needle in your vein?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' date='23 October 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1256350780' post='1990454'] Love exists without God. It's an emotion. I experience it. It exists in the same sense that happiness, joy, hatred, lust et cetera exist. [/quote] No it doesn't. What you are talking about is biological functions and chemical reactions within the body. Natures way of assuring reproduction, and self preservation of the species. There is biological 'love' that can be measured by science, biological functions and chemical reactions. But the Love poets write about can not be proven by science. When most people talk of the love they have for someone they speak in the realm of poetic love, which goes far beyond what science can measure. Without God emotions are reduced down to nothing more that biological functions and chemical reactions. Edited October 24, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='23 October 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1256349218' post='1990445'] I know that there can be subjective and relative opinions on a purpose for life, without God. But in the end there just opinions not facts, not really real. Just make believe to make a person feel 'good.' [/quote] Exactly. Choose what you want to believe. Choose to be happy or not. It's our perspective of other's expectations that mostly affect our happiness. Religion believers choose the belief that it gives them the leg up on meaning in comparison to 'heathens'. Heathens mealy choose another set of opinions. It's the disapproval of the opposite opinion that undermines each others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Anomaly' date='23 October 2009 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1256355271' post='1990509'] Exactly. Choose what you want to believe. Choose to be happy or not. It's our perspective of other's expectations that mostly affect our happiness. Religion believers choose the belief that it gives them the leg up on meaning in comparison to 'heathens'. Heathens mealy choose another set of opinions. It's the disapproval of the opposite opinion that undermines each others. [/quote] With a Creator God we have a purpose to our lives, where love, hate, good, evil, right and wrong exist. Those ideals would be factual, truly exist. But without God creating us for a purpose we exist and everything around us by pure chance. Sure without God people can belive in a purpose to our lives, love, hate, good, evil, right and wrong. But those beliefs would not be really real, just like God would not be really real. Edited October 24, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='23 October 2009 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1256353983' post='1990497'] No it doesn't. What you are talking about is biological functions and chemical reactions within the body. Natures way of assuring reproduction, and self preservation of the species. There is biological 'love' that can be measured by science, biological functions and chemical reactions. But the Love poets write about can not be proven by science. When most people talk of the love they have for someone they speak in the realm of poetic love, which goes far beyond what science can measure. Without God emotions are reduced down to nothing more that biological functions and chemical reactions. [/quote] Yes. That is correct. What are emotions with God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 October 2009 - 12:43 AM' timestamp='1256355838' post='1990516'] With a Creator God we have a purpose to our lives, where love, hate, good, evil, right and wrong exist. Those ideals would be factual, truly exist. But without God creating us for a purpose we exist and everything around us by pure chance. Sure without God people can belive in a purpose to our lives, love, hate, good, evil, right and wrong. But those beliefs would not be really real, just like God would not be really real. [/quote]LOL. That's not convincing at all. Many cultures and animal herds have good and bad behviors without belief in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Anomaly' date='23 October 2009 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1256356622' post='1990527'] LOL. That's not convincing at all. Many cultures and animal herds have good and bad behviors without belief in God. [/quote] Well let's define some terms here. What cultures, and what animal herds? And you are talking about Atheist Cultures that was not before a revolution, a culture of faiths? I would like to hear of the atheist 'animal herds' or atheist nomads, and their history. Seriously. But perhaps you did not mean atheist nomads and atheist cultures. Perhaps you meant, non-christian cultures of faith? Don't see how that helps your argument. The Catholic Church understands that the reason most cultures through out time believe in God, or gods. Is because man was created with reason, and had written on his heart that He exist. All monotheist and polytheist at least understand that a being(s) greater than themselves exist. And that being(s) give us purpose to our existence because they created us. In Atheism we have no creator, no mind no thought put into the creation of existence. There is nothing behind our existence, no force. It just it happened at random over billions, and billions of years. Thus no real objective purpose. Edited October 24, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='23 October 2009 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1256356384' post='1990523'] Yes. That is correct. What are emotions with God? [/quote] Spiritual. Emotions with God go deeper than just the biological functions and chemical reactions. But in atheism that's all there is, 'love' is limited to just certain chemical reactions in the brain and body, that cause the person to feel what we call 'love'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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