N/A Gone Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 http://www.episcopalcafe.com/thesoul/daily_reading/the_socialist_gospel.html What say you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='08 October 2009 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1255055752' post='1981392'] http://www.episcopalcafe.com/thesoul/daily_reading/the_socialist_gospel.html What say you... [/quote] [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19310515_quadragesimo-anno_en.html"]QUADRAGESIMO ANNO ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XI ON RECONSTRUCTION OF THE SOCIAL ORDER TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN, THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES, ARCHBISHOPS, BISHOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE, AND LIKEWISE TO ALL THE FAITHFUL OF THE CATHOLIC WORLD.[/url] "No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true socialist." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 u rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 *saves to flash drive* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not to cause too much trouble, but what kind of practical authority does this document have for today's understanding of Socialism? In 1931 we really did not have the same understanding of socialism as we do today. Not that I am advocating socialism, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Socialism is a form of government. Christianity is not a form of government. Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 That does not even make sense sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Socialism [i]takes[/i], Christianity requires that one [i]give[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 the document still applies to the modern definition of socialism; however, the social encyclicals of popes like John Paul II have tended towards approving a sort of hybrid between socialism and capitalism... with socialist policies and capitalist policies being checks and balances to each other in order to safeguard the rights that Catholic Social Justice says needs to be guarded... that is one possible route to take in terms of Catholic Social Justice. I myself prefer a third way around socialism and capitalism known as distributism, which would hold up Quadressimo Anno and Rerum Novarum as its rallying cries, and has been described as "economic thomism" by some... an anti-Capitalist anti-Socialist third way which prefers that ownership of property be widely distributed, not centralized in big businesses nor in governments. it would favor small government and also small business, "the problem with capitalism is not too many capitalists, but too few" would be what Chesterton, one of the founders of the movement, would say. those are two ways to go, believe in a mix of socialist policies and capitalist policies or some third way that's both anti-Capitalist and anti-Socialist. true socialism cannot be embraced by a Catholic. likewise, however, pure unadulterated capitalism has never been embraced by the social teachings of the Church and has always been opposed; of course, it depends on how you define "Capitalism" and some might argue it's okay to be a Catholic and a Capitalist, but when you press them on the issue you usually find that they'll be Catholic first and Capitalist second and will answer in ways that a true pure capitalist would not answer. Rush Limbaugh was recently on Jay Leno talking about Capitalism and mentioned that Capitalism ignores "need" completely in terms of how much one should earn... to which I responded in the thread about it "that's why Capitalism is antithetical to Catholicism"... but one needn't follow Rush's definition of Capitalism I suppose; but one of the social doctrines of the Church would be that people need to have available to them the ability to make as much as they need for their families. how that's accomplished is a matter of debate, but it's an issue that we demand, and those who simply "trust the market" blindly do not demand that, they simply say each person should make as much as they deserve or merit, not necessarily as much as they need. that's just one way Capitalism is antithetical to Catholicism... Christianity, of course, is not socialism and nor has it ever been. from the beginning there have been voluntary 'communists' (for lack of a better word) in the Church, that's where the monastic tradition comes from. Christianity has always held that some, but not all, are called to a life in which they give up private property; but they give up private property the way they give up spouses, they give it up as something which is good in itself, a pure and good sacrifice. the socialists would have us believe that private property is something bad, and the Catholic Church is vehemently opposed to the idea that private property is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 property is theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='09 October 2009 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1255117167' post='1981860'] property is theft. [/quote] [img]http://207.199.174.56/img/qzWJBPEnIZ_shut_up_hippie.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Yes. Pure win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 shut up, hippie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) As I see it, after reading and trying to grasp the social encyclicals, the central problem with socialism is that it eliminates the private ownership of productive property, and that it degrades the dignity of the human individual through a centralization of government, which renders Democracy next to useless in assisting the most neglected among us. I also favor distributism. I'm actually writing my senior thesis this semester on Catholic Social Teaching and Distributism. btw, it seems to do little good to merely announce to the faithful the quote that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Socialist. [b][i]Why?[/i][/b] Unless we understand [i][b]why[/b][/i] we cannot be both Socialist and Catholic, then we might be swept up by the latest political fashion that might pose itself as the ideal anti-Socialism, as if it would be the Catholic's answer to Socialism Edited October 11, 2009 by Didymus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 [quote name='XIX' date='08 October 2009 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1255059284' post='1981439'] Socialism is a form of government. Christianity is not a form of government. Game. [/quote] the idea isn't that they're the same [i]type[/i] of system, but that rather Socialism would be the govt form of Christianity, or that Christianity is the "spiritual" representation of Socialism. socialists, unfortunately, have tried to make Christianity in their own image, and thats when Liberation Theology was born (in its most modern form) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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