Can Truth Be Told In Half The Truth?

[todd_vetter33]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Below is everything Christian history gospel testimony has to offer for this single event in the life of Pilate where Pilate asks Jesus some questions and the answers Jesus Gives in return.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Can A single event in history be told in full truth if only half the truth is presented in writing? Do any of these testimonies tell the full truth for this moment in time? Which one?[/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]From Matthew 27[/size][/font]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b][sup]11[/sup][/b] Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" Jesus said to him, "[i]It is as[/i] you say." [b][sup]12[/sup][/b] And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing. [b][sup]13[/sup][/b] Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?" [b][sup]14[/sup][/b] But He answered him not one word, so that the governor marveled greatly.[/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]From Mark 15[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Then Pilate asked Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" He answered and said to him, "[i]It is as[/i] you say." [b][sup]3[/sup][/b] And the chief priests accused Him of many things, but He answered nothing. [b][sup]4[/sup][/b] Then Pilate asked Him again, saying, "Do You answer nothing? See how many things they testify against You! [b][sup]5[/sup][/b] But Jesus still answered nothing, so that Pilate marveled.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]From Luke 23[/size][/font]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b][sup]3[/sup][/b] Then Pilate asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?"
He answered him and said, "[i]It is as[/i] you say." [b][sup]4[/sup][/b] So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd, "I find no fault in this Man. " [b][sup]5[/sup][/b] But they were the more fierce, saying, "He stirs up the people, teaching throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee to this place."[/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Bible John:18[/size][/font]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" [b][sup]34[/sup][/b] Jesus answered him, "Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?" [b][sup]35[/sup][/b] Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?" [b][sup]36[/sup][/b] Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." [b][sup]37[/sup][/b] Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say [i]rightly[/i] that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." [b][sup]38[/sup][/b] Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Gospel of Nicodemus[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]And Pilate went in again into the judgment hall and called Jesus apart and said unto him: Art thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered and said to Pilate: Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? Pilate answered Jesus: Am I also a Jew? thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world; for if my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have striven that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate said unto him: Art thou a king, then? Jesus answered him: Thou sayest that I am a king; for this cause was I born and am come, that every one that is of the truth should hear my voice. Pilate saith unto him: What is truth? [b][u]Jesus saith unto him: Truth is of heaven. Pilate saith: Is there not truth upon earth? Jesus saith unto Pilate: Thou seest how that they which speak the truth are judged of them that have authority upon earth.[/u][/b] And Pilate left Jesus in the judgment hall and went forth to the Jews and said unto them: I find no fault in him.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]G-12 text Same text comparison.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called Jesus and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? Pilate answered, Am I a Jew ? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me; what hast thou done? Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a King then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am, yea, a King I am. To this end was I born and for this cause came I unto the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate said unto him, What is truth? [b][u]Jesus said, Truth is from heaven. Pilate said, Then truth is not on earth. Jesus said unto Pilate, Believe thou, that truth is on earth amongst those who receive and obey it. They are of the truth who judge righteously.[/u][/b] And when he had heard this, he went out again unto the Jews and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders he answered them nothing. Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not, how many things they witness against thee? And he answered him never a word, insomuch that the governor marveled greatly, and again he said unto them, I find no fault in this man.[/font][/size]

The G-12 text which is the most complete written text for this single event has been well proven to predate the 4 bible NT gospels in use in the Christian bible today. For evidence see the link posted in the thread titled "Christian confusion on Crucifixion" You'll find it to be the most objective study on the Crucifixion to date by using all written gospel testimony to find and illustrate the solid truth for this widely debated topic.

God Bless

[T-Bone _]

The shotgun approach has been tried here in the past. It has failed miserably.

[rkwright]

The part you have underlined is not in any of the 4 NT Gospels. There is no way of knowing if it is accurate or trustworthy.

Just because a text predates and contains more of a story does not mean it contains the Truth.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='todd_vetter33]


The G-12 text which is the most complete written text for this single event has been well proven to predate the 4 bible NT gospels in use in the Christian bible today. For evidence see the link posted in the thread titled "Christian confusion on Crucifixion"
[/quote]

Are you referring to the Essenes? They were not christian.
Please show scholarly citations proving this G-12 text predates the canonical gospels.
Or are you referring to the myriad of spurious gospels rejected by the Church?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1255147546' post='1982219']
Are you referring to the Essenes? They were not christian.
Please show scholarly citations proving this G-12 text predates the canonical gospels.
[/quote]



[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/diffinitive%20evidence%20the%204%20gospels%20came%20from%20one%20original%20source.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/diffinitive%20evidence%20the%204%20gospels%20came%20from%20one%20original%20source.pdf[/url]

Test carefully all the information you find at this link. Follow the instructions given and you will understand Why I can make the claim I make in truth.

God Bless

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1255141856' post='1982169']
The part you have underlined is not in any of the 4 NT Gospels. There is no way of knowing if it is accurate or trustworthy.

Just because a text predates and contains more of a story does not mean it contains the Truth.
[/quote]

That is pretty much the whole point of this post and my other post. Can you trust the written testimonies when Half truths are presented? By applying the Scripture of Time as defined by God to the physical application of each gospel's testimony. Discrepancies in testimony are found when compared to prophecy and the corresponding gospels regarding the events that were supposed to fulfil prophecy. The time line shared illustrates that Scripture and prophecy are perfect. The manner in which Men define Scripture however does not seem to be correct.

If the truth does not come from God through living Men. How can you trust it. They must speak according to the Law and the Testimony.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/diffinitive%20evidence%20the%204%20gospels%20came%20from%20one%20original%20source.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...al%20source.pdf[/url]

If you test carefully all the information at this link and follow the instructions. You will find an amazing treasure that God will want you to invest.

God Bless

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[Formosus]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1255147904' post='1982222']
[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/diffinitive%20evidence%20the%204%20gospels%20came%20from%20one%20original%20source.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/diffinitive%20evidence%20the%204%20gospels%20came%20from%20one%20original%20source.pdf[/url]

Test carefully all the information you find at this link. Follow the instructions given and you will understand Why I can make the claim I make in truth.

God Bless
[/quote]


I am sorry but that link does not constitute a scholarly source. Can you please present the location of a peer review journal or book which backs up your claim that this "gospel" is older then the canonical Gospels. Top biblical scholars please. Otherwise the opinions of some fringe group really prove nothing as far as dating the NT goes.

[HisChildForever]

I still don't understand how he calls the Scriptures "corrupt" (re: other thread) and then uses them to defend his position.

Edited October 10, 2009 by HisChildForever

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Formosus' date='10 October 2009 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1255154049' post='1982259']
I am sorry but that link does not constitute a scholarly source. Can you please present the location of a peer review journal or book which backs up your claim that this "gospel" is older then the canonical Gospels. Top biblical scholars please. Otherwise the opinions of some fringe group really prove nothing as far as dating the NT goes.
[/quote]


Since this discovery has been highlighted just two weeks ago. You will not find it in any journal unless you send it. Your getting it for free to test it for yourself... I'm sharing it with you under the assumption that you have the ability to perform second grade level math skills, Think for yourself, Use common sense, and have the ability to follow a graph. If this is too difficult then you may want to wait until some Scholar gives his opionion. Then your dependant on whether or not he has given a true opinion and presented you with a full truth.

For almost 2000 years men have had the opinion that Christ died on a Friday. Is this what prophecy says? Prohecy says the midst (middle) of the week. A Friday Crucifixion to Sunday resurrection is half the truth of 3 days and 3 nights.

You will see that the G-12 text portion of testimony contains all the testimony of the bible gospels for the event presented. Using time specific prophecy it can be determined that the Chapter under examination from the G-12 text has false testimony added into the paragraph presented. What is interesting is that what is verified by Time prophecy to be false testimony is now broken up into two separate bible gospels.

For you to make an empty claim that the information is not credible, you must provide credible information illustrating your claim to be true.

This is very credibile evidence that your bible gospels came from the G-12 text. See Evidence presented since I make no claim with out providing evidence.

This evidence challenges the speculations which are currently used and approved by the Scholarly men for the dating of written gospel material since this gospel contains testimonial ties to Arius and the arian Christians which survived and dominated the majority of Europe up to the 5th century before being attacked by Rome for docternal conflicts.

It's for this reason that the G-12 text was taken on a journy 3000 miles East of the Roman empire.

More Evidence is presented in the time line in my original post. You just have to take the advice of the Man you claim to follow, "test all things and keep that which is good."

I am making claims that I can back up with solid historical evidence. Is a tradition exposed flawed by the evidence I provide your only credibility?

God Bless

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1255156090' post='1982269']
I still don't understand how he calls the Scriptures "corrupt" (re: other thread) and then uses them to defend his position.
[/quote]


There you go mis-quoting me again. The scriptures are pure. It's your definition of what constitutes scripture that is impure. If you would take the time to read the 55 pages of color coded Chicken scratch, you could understand how there is a difference. Untill then you will only understand what you have been programmed to understand. I gave you a perfect example when I illustrated two bible verses for the same prophecy. Only one is true scripture (testimony of Christ). The other was put in your bible by God's enemy.

Matthew 16:21 KJV From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [u]and be raised the third day. [/u]

Mark 8:31 KJV And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things and be rejected of the elders and of the chief priests and scribes and be killed, [u]and after three days rise again.[/u]


[color="#3333ff"]For another example of Error in your bible. Did you know that according to your bible that Judas Died twice? One book says he hung himself, and another book says he purchased a field and his belly burst open and he died.

Which bible book is telling the truth for this single event in history? Are either since there is a known gospel of Judas?

Can you only speculate an answer for these questions? Will you bare false witness if you speak an answer without God giving you the truth of the matter?[/color]

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[todd_vetter33]

It appears that no one is interested in this topic even though it has had many views and many replies in debate. What I have discovered is that a human can be programmed to belive anything if only backed by speculations, and pride can cloud the mind and keep it from performing simple math skills, basic reading and comprehension.

It's time for me to move on to a new Forum to share the treasure that God has given me to invest. Each of you have received this talent. Question is... will you invest or be the one who buried your treasure until the master returned to take account?


Think not that any man should teach you. The annointing (helper) that Christ wants to send to you will teach you all truth!

God Bless

[rkwright]

Todd, feel free to stay and present your arguments here. They are interesting. But do present them here, not linking to huge documents.

I for one, have a busy life outside of Phatmass. I spend my days pouring over pages and pages of documents and texts. The last thing I want to do is go through it during my "free time". I don't mind debating an argument but the argument has to be here.

[reyb]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1255135055' post='1982039']
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Below is everything Christian history gospel testimony has to offer for this single event in the life of Pilate where Pilate asks Jesus some questions and the answers Jesus Gives in return.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Can A single event in history be told in full truth if only half the truth is presented in writing? Do any of these testimonies tell the full truth for this moment in time? Which one?[/font][/size]


[/quote]

If the Gospel writers (all writers including Apostle Paul and the Prophets) are referring to your historical Jesus, then you are correct. They are ‘dull’ historians and full of conflicting stories. But who told you that this ‘coming’ of the Messiah is an historical event?

[Archaeology cat]

Any time you have various people giving an account of the same thing, you'll have differences. This isn't because one person is lying and another telling the truth, but because different things seem important to different people. For example, if you ask my husband and me to tell how he proposed, you'll get different stories. Both are true, but different things jump out to me than to him. We also have very different ways of expressing things. His language is much more exact (comes from being a language student).

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1255177619' post='1982325']
There you go mis-quoting me again. The scriptures are pure. It's your definition of what constitutes scripture that is impure. [/quote]

Post #117 in "Christian Confusion on Crucifixion" you [u]explicitly[/u] stated the following:
[b]"The point is that all written gospel testimonies are corrupted by men. The gospel will go to the world only when God puts the gospel in your mouth to speak."[/b]
That sounds a lot more than my "definition of what constitutes Scripture." You made an objective statement that encompasses the ENTIRE Bible.

[quote] If you would take the time to read the 55 pages of color coded Chicken scratch, [/quote]

Good, you're learning.

[quote] I gave you a perfect example when I illustrated two bible verses for the same prophecy. Only one is true scripture (testimony of Christ). The other was put in your bible by God's enemy. [/quote]

Again, my Bible came [b]before[/b] your King James (you know, the one you keep quoting). How can the original Bible be "God's enemy" and the Xth version be "true"?

[quote] For another example of Error in your bible. Did you know that according to your bible that Judas Died twice? One book says he hung himself, and another book says he purchased a field and his belly burst open and he died.

Which bible book is telling the truth for this single event in history? Are either since there is a known gospel of Judas?

Can you only speculate an answer for these questions? Will you bare false witness if you speak an answer without God giving you the truth of the matter?
[/quote]

The King James Bible - again, the one you keep quoting and insisting as "truth" - [b]also[/b] also contains two stories of Judas' death.

Matthew 27:5
"And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Acts 1:18
"Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

So since we have established the Scriptures as "pure" in and of themselves (something which you apparently denied in another thread, as showed above), what are we arguing here?

It is very possible that the rope broke down - due to scavengers, the weather, or even the poor quality of the rope - which caused the body to fall. The body, decomposed and therefore "soft," could have hit a rock and split the midsection open.

Edited October 10, 2009 by HisChildForever