Is It Overall In A Nation's Interest To Recognize Gay Marriage?

[kujo]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1256002381' post='1988072']
I have no problem with imposing my beliefs on others (in most cases).
[/quote]

LOL. I appreciate the honesty and am really glad you are not a member of the government of our great country.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1256003202' post='1988075']
Well, there is your problem right there.

cause imposing beliefs has always worked so well in the past
[/quote]

I have stated in the past that I am a fan of various crusades and inquisitions, so...

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='kujo' date='19 October 2009 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1256003349' post='1988076']
LOL. I appreciate the honesty and am really glad you are not a member of the government of our great country.
[/quote]

You do realize that everyone imposes their beliefs on others when participating in governmental activities...

[Jesus_lol]

how ironic for Res would it be right now if the system he wants to happen takes place, but it is run by a protestant. or a muslim. legally either has as much claim to do what he is speaking of. which is NONE, thankfully.



hey Res, you said that even without God, a homosexual marriage would not be a valid marriage? Without God, wouldnt every marriage be unvalid?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1256003803' post='1988083']
how ironic for Res would it be right now if the system he wants to happen takes place, but it is run by a protestant. or a muslim. legally either has as much claim to do what he is speaking of. which is NONE, thankfully.[/quote]

Unlike Protestantism and Islam, the Catholic religion is the true religion instituted by God Himself.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1256003803' post='1988083']
hey Res, you said that even without God, a homosexual marriage would not be a valid marriage? Without God, wouldnt every marriage be unvalid?
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you are asking. One does not need to have a religious ceremony (unless that person is Catholic, in which case he is bound by the marriage laws of the Church) let alone be religious in order to have a valid marriage.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 October 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1255387513' post='1984130']
You're apparently behind the times then. For Canada at least.

I've been called a bigot and a homophobe in the last week alone. Also compared to a jihadi terrorist and fire and brimstone preacher.
Why? I posted a quote which disagreed with same sex 'marriage'.

This is the new reality that we have to deal with.
[/quote]

I would not call anyone a homophobe or a bigot if their opposition to gay marriage had a little thought behind it. I wouldn't call you a bigot, I wouldn't advocate gay sex education in schools (or heterosexual for that matter) and I wouldn't compare you to a terrorist.

I think that there are members of the gay community that will take it to extremes by insulting you, just like there are members of Christian groups who will insult homosexuals. I'm all for dialogue and civil discussion, even if neither party will change their stance atleast it would help make the atmosphere more charitable and reduce prejudice on both sides. Insularity is not good, for either party.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1256004121' post='1988086']
Unlike Protestantism and Islam, the Catholic religion is the true religion instituted by God Himself.
[/quote]

according to you and only 17% of the world population. (not that that means its wrong, it just means you dont get to majority rule over anyone, as much as you would like to)

[quote]
I'm not sure what you are asking. One does not need to have a religious ceremony (unless that person is Catholic, in which case he is bound by the marriage laws of the Church) let alone be religious in order to have a valid marriage.
[/quote]

[img]http://sodaracq.ifa.rm.cnr.it/HtmlHelp/HeadBang.gif[/img]
the whole point of this thread is for you to suspend your beliefs that god exists at all, and look at the issue from an entirely athiestic, logical stance. If God makes hetero unions valid, and without God the union is unvalid(according to most here), then if you take away God from the equation, arent all "kinds" of marriage as equally valid as each other?

Edited October 20, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1256005876' post='1988098']
according to you and only 17% of the world population. (not that that means its wrong, it just means you dont get to majority rule over anyone, as much as you would like to)[/quote]

As I said before, I don't mind Catholics imposing their beliefs on others (at least in certain areas).

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1256005876' post='1988098']
http://sodaracq.ifa.rm.cnr.it/HtmlHelp/HeadBang.gif
the whole point of this thread is for you to suspend your beliefs that god exists at all, and look at the issue from an entirely athiestic, logical stance.
[/quote]

God's existence can be known through natural reason just like one can know that only a persons of opposite sexes can validly marry.

P.S., [i]unvalid[/i] isn't a word.

[Kitty]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1256006066' post='1988100']
As I said before, I don't mind Catholics imposing their beliefs on others (at least in certain areas).
[/quote]

But you don't like it when non-catholics impose their beliefs on you.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Kitty' date='19 October 2009 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1256006292' post='1988101']
But you don't like it when non-catholics impose their beliefs on you.
[/quote]

It would depend on what the beliefs of said non-Catholics are.

In any case, I never claimed to be unbiased.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Kitty' date='19 October 2009 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1256006292' post='1988101']
But you don't like it when non-catholics impose their beliefs on you.
[/quote]
If it's authentic, then no, we shouldn't mind. But it's true of everyone that when laws they agree with are made, they don't mind. Like if someone made a law that people who slightly resemble Joan Osborne didn't have to pay taxes, you'd be all, like, "Awesome!".

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 08:34 PM' timestamp='1256006066' post='1988100']
As I said before, I don't mind Catholics imposing their beliefs on others (at least in certain areas).



God's existence can be known through natural reason just like one can know that only a persons of opposite sexes can validly marry.

P.S., [i]unvalid[/i] isn't a word.
[/quote]
ok im not getting through to you, and you arent getting through to me, so i am agreeing that we disagree here.

and i was pretty sure it wasnt a word, but invalid just sounds too much like the elderly definition for me to use it. 50 years from now, websters will prove me right


[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1256006386' post='1988104']
It would depend on what the beliefs of said non-Catholics are.

In any case, I never claimed to be unbiased.
[/quote]

Honesty is a good policy, i like you.

[quote name='Winchester' date='19 October 2009 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1256006453' post='1988106']
Ifit's authentic, then no, we shouldn't mind. But it's true of everyonethat when laws they agree with are made, they don't mind. Like ifsomeone made a law that people who slightly resemble Joan Osbornedidn't have to pay taxes, you'd be all, like, "Awesome!".
[/quote]

umm, we have that policy up here in Canada actually. except the category is for people who resemble Terry Fox, Tim Horton, or an indigenous moose.
and yes i would swear to that on a stack of bibles in court.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 October 2009 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1256006066' post='1988100']
As I said before, I don't mind Catholics imposing their beliefs on others (at least in certain areas).
[/quote]

I'd like you to define your parameters, if you would. This, as [i]Dignitatis Humanae [/i]says, is the only way that beliefs may be imposed on others:

[size="2"]"[/size][size="2"]The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power."

Beliefs may not be imposed by force, but by virtue of their truth. I can use violence to defend myself, but doing so does not impose my belief on you. It merely prevents you from imposing your beliefs, physically manifested by violence, upon me.

~Sternhauser
[/size]

[OraProMe]

Rex I think what Jesus_lol was trying to say is that (in this thread) the question is supposed to be approached from a secular, atheistic point of view. Now you're arguing from Natural Law but, in theology, the source of Natural Law is God. You're having trouble stepping out of your own shoes and looking at issues from different perspectives.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='19 October 2009 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1256006574' post='1988107']

umm, we have that policy up here in Canada actually. except the category is for people who resemble Terry Fox, Tim Horton, or an indigenous moose.
and yes i would swear to that on a stack of bibles in court.
[/quote]
You are awesome.