Christian Confusion On Crucifixion

[HisChildForever]

This is the definition of pointless.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1255128413' post='1981962']
This is the definition of pointless.
[/quote]


You are correct. This is pointless because you continue to make false claims with no backing or support. You still have not read the topic material and lack the basic understanding of the concept to have an objecitve view point to express. This just makes you look silly and uneducated to others reading this post.

It's not my intention to embarass you which is why i requested you take time to get up to speed on the history and the testimony that covers the topic at hand.

5. And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice.

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1255128929' post='1981973']
You are correct. [b]This is pointless because you continue to make false claims with no backing or support.[/b] You still have not read the topic material and lack the basic understanding of the concept to have an objecitve view point to express. This just makes you look silly and uneducated to others reading this post.

It's not my intention to embarass you which is why i requested you take time to get up to speed on the history and the testimony that covers the topic at hand.

God Bless
[/quote]

Pot, meet kettle.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1255128929' post='1981973']
You are correct. This is pointless because you continue to make false claims with no backing or support. You still have not read the topic material and lack the basic understanding of the concept to have an objecitve view point to express. This just makes you look silly and uneducated to others reading this post.

It's not my intention to embarass you which is why i requested you take time to get up to speed on the history and the testimony that covers the topic at hand.

God Bless
[/quote]

The only embarrassment I feel is for you, actually.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1255129163' post='1981976']
The only embarrassment I feel is for you, actually.
[/quote]


And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice.

There is no need to feel sorry for me. I hear God's voice. Do you? He has put the words in my mouth for me to say. Does he do this for you?

Feel concerned if you feel anything and where you direct your concern is up to you.

God bless

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

You're so silly, Toddy.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1255131266' post='1981995']
You're so silly, Toddy.
[/quote]


That's interesting. I wasn't joking. It's a matter of existance or life past the last day. Life will continue. Futile existence and regeneration will end on that day when lawlessness is destroyed. This is the lawless and adulterous generation and the sign you will seek is before you on this day.

God Bless

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1255132730' post='1982011']
This is the lawless and adulterous generation and the sign you will seek is before you on this day.
[/quote]

Sweet, then the money I invested in sign language classes won't go to waste!

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='08 October 2009 - 07:56 AM' timestamp='1255006597' post='1980781']
Well todd... if the Church is full of lies, then the Bible is a lie also because it is the Church who gives us the Bible.

[/quote]


I wanted to illustrate the full truth of this Half truth statement made a few pages back.

It's the Catholic Chuch who gives you the bible in it's many Catholic variations through Christian history. Even the Catholic Church made changes to what is contained in the collection of Books called the bible. It's God who will give you the word of God that is truth, solid, and does not change.

Has anyone taken the time to read the study shared at this link so that we can get to some objective and educated inputs?

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1255134225' post='1982026']
I wanted to illustrate the full truth of this Half truth statement made a few pages back. [/quote]

Not a "half truth statement" - more like a historical fact.

[quote] It's the Catholic Chuch who gives you the bible in it's many Catholic variations through Christian history. Even the Catholic Church made changes to what is contained in the collection of Books called the bible.[/quote]

False.

[quote]
Has anyone taken the time to read the study shared at this link so that we can get to some objective and educated inputs?

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

No one is interested because your text on here makes no sense.

[rkwright]

A few comments in Todd. I'm going to edit down your posts because their very large and my response is brief.

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1255117140' post='1981859']
Regarding which bible to take seriously.. they all have good seed (words sown by Christ) and Bad seed (words sown by Satan) in the same field. I think you will appreciate this example since I save the Catholic example for last and the typo's you will find are as they were printed in that Catholic version.
...
Because the bible is ever changing.. it cannot be God's word. God's word is truth and it is solid![/b][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

What is amazing is that Jesus spoke a dead language, the Bible was written in another dead language, translated into latin and various other languages, and then later into English. I am not convinced that somehow we are missing out on some truth because the English words vary ever so slightly.

For example, what do all these variations hide?


[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1255122731' post='1981893']
You can find it here.

[url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]

It can be found here

[url="http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_table_of_contents.htm"]http://www.thenazare...of_contents.htm[/url]

It can also be found here.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/gospel%20of%20holy%2012.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...20holy%2012.pdf[/url]

And if you read the information in the link study you would have found several of these links posted through out the study.

The purpose of the study I share is to illustrate objectivly what this gospel means to the Christian world. those who know of this gospel claim it to be perfect or claim it to be an 19th century forgery. Both are incorrect in their human assupmtions. It does however fill in many blanks and eliminates many Christian speculations regarding the 4 Roman gospels we have today.


Basically your looking at a unique opportunity to see if your Christian forefathers did a good job when they sat down at the chopping block during the councils to define orthodoxy.

Hope you enjoy the links.

God Bless
[/quote]

Now this is where you really lose me. You want to tell us that lies have infected the Bible, but believe that the truth lies in a Bible found in 1800s. Why should we believe something written 1800 years after the fact. You base its truth on the fact that it fulfills all the prophecies perfectly. Sounds to me to be too good to be true. Its much easier to write a story intending to fulfill every prophecy in mind than it is to just write down what happened.

Last I'm still not convinced with the three days argument. I'll point it out again.
Jesus dies, Friday - Day 1
Saturday - Day 2
Sunday - Day 3

Jesus rises on the third day - seems obvious.

Jesus dies and after friday, saturday, sunday, rises.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1255135199' post='1982044']
A few comments in Todd. I'm going to edit down your posts because their very large and my response is brief.



What is amazing is that Jesus spoke a dead language, the Bible was written in another dead language, translated into latin and various other languages, and then later into English. I am not convinced that somehow we are missing out on some truth because the English words vary ever so slightly.

For example, what do all these variations hide?




Now this is where you really lose me. You want to tell us that lies have infected the Bible, but believe that the truth lies in a Bible found in 1800s. Why should we believe something written 1800 years after the fact. You base its truth on the fact that it fulfills all the prophecies perfectly. Sounds to me to be too good to be true. Its much easier to write a story intending to fulfill every prophecy in mind than it is to just write down what happened.

Last I'm still not convinced with the three days argument. I'll point it out again.
Jesus dies, Friday - Day 1
Saturday - Day 2
Sunday - Day 3

Jesus rises on the third day - seems obvious.

Jesus dies and after friday, saturday, sunday, rises.
[/quote]

The point is that all written gospel testimonies are corrupted by men. The gospel will go to the world only when God puts the gospel in your mouth to speak.

I guess you too have not kept up with the conversation.

Please see the link from the original post and check it for objective truth.

Then we can carry an intelligent conversation.

missing from your illustration is 3 nights.. Keep trying


Very respectfully

Todd Vetter

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[Formosus]

I don't know if this has been answered yet, but according to the Roman tradition of dating, Friday is three days from Sunday as they count the beginning of the third day as being three days. I noticed this in my latin book when it was explaining the dating on Roman letters.

It appears I misunderstood the topic. As for the OP, there was no different version of the Bible found in a tibetan monastery. Provide a scholarly source for such nonsense.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Formosus

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1255135816' post='1982057']
The point is that all written gospel testimonies are corrupted by men. [/quote]

Then why are you using the Scriptures to back your arguments??

[quote] The gospel will go to the world only when God puts the gospel in your mouth to speak. [/quote]

Subjective interpretation of the Scriptures. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1255135199' post='1982044']
A few comments in Todd. I'm going to edit down your posts because their very large and my response is brief.



What is amazing is that Jesus spoke a dead language, the Bible was written in another dead language, translated into latin and various other languages, and then later into English. I am not convinced that somehow we are missing out on some truth because the English words vary ever so slightly.

For example, what do all these variations hide?




Now this is where you really lose me. You want to tell us that lies have infected the Bible, but believe that the truth lies in a Bible found in 1800s. Why should we believe something written 1800 years after the fact. You base its truth on the fact that it fulfills all the prophecies perfectly. Sounds to me to be too good to be true. Its much easier to write a story intending to fulfill every prophecy in mind than it is to just write down what happened.

Last I'm still not convinced with the three days argument. I'll point it out again.
Jesus dies, Friday - Day 1
Saturday - Day 2
Sunday - Day 3

Jesus rises on the third day - seems obvious.

Jesus dies and after friday, saturday, sunday, rises.
[/quote]


A Catholic Bishop from before the counsils had this to say about the death and resurrection prophetic Time. Did God put in his mouth what to say? Why does his testimony speak differently than you? Is the catholic bishop telling the truth?

[b]Reference: [/b][b][url="http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html"]http://www.bombaxo.com/didascalia.html[/url][/b][b] [/b][b]Didascalia Apostolorum [/b][b] [/b][b]-[v. 13] Wherefore, when you fast, pray and intercede for [[181]] them that are lost; as we also did when our Savior suffered. [v. 14] [/b][b] [/b][b]For while He [/b][b]was yet with us before He suffered, as we were eating the Passover with Him, He said to us: [/b][b][i]To-day, in this night, one of you will betray me. [/i][/b][b](p. 88) [/b][b][i]And we said unto Him, each one of us: Is it I, Lord? And he answered and said to us: He that putteth forth his hand with me into the dish [/i][/b][b][Mk [/b][b]14.30; Mt 26.21-23 (Mk 14.18-20)]. And Judas Iscariot, who was one of us, rose up and went his way to betray Him [cf. Jn 13.30]. Then our Lord [/b][b]said to us: [/b][b][i]Verily I say unto you, a little while and ye will leave me; for it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the lambs of his flock shall be [/i][/b][b][i]scattered [/i][/b][b][Jn 16.32; Mt 26.31; Mk 14.27][/b][b][i]. [/i][/b][b]And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus. [/b][b][u]-Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the Passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the [/u][/b][b][u]Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week[/u][/b][b][u],[/u][/b][b] He remained in ward in the [/b][b]house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next [/b][b]day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the [/b][b]fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, [[182]] [/b][b][i]they accused him much [/i][/b][b][Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could [/b][b]show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him. And they asked Him of Pilate to be put to death; and they crucified Him on the [/b][b]same Friday. [/b][b]-[/b][b]He suffered, then, at the sixth hour on Friday. And these hours wherein our Lord was crucified were reckoned a day. And afterwards, again, there [/b][b]was darkness for three hours; and it was reckoned a night. And again, from the ninth hour until evening, three hours, (reckoned) a day. And [/b][b]afterwards again, (there was) the night of the Sabbath of the Passion. -- But in the Gospel of Matthew it is thus written:[/b][b] [/b][b][i]At even on the sabbath, [/i][/b][b][i]when the first day of the week drew on, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the tomb[/i][/b][b][i]. [/i][/b][b][i]And there was a great earthquake: for an angel [/i][/b][b][i]of the Lord came down and rolled away the stone [/i][/b][b][Mt 28.1-2][/b][b][i]. [/i][/b][b]-- And again (there was) the day of the Sabbath;[/b][b] [/b][b]and then three hours of the night [/b][b]after the Sabbath[/b][b], [/b][b]wherein our Lord slept. And that was fulfilled which He said: [/b][b][i]The Son of man must pass three days and three nights in the [/i][/b][b][i]heart of the earth[/i][/b][b] [Mt 12.40][/b][b][i], [/i][/b][b]as it is written in the Gospel. And again it is written in David: [/b][b][i]Behold, thou hast set my days in measure[/i][/b][b] [Ps 38.6 [/b][b]LXX][/b][b][i]. [/i][/b][b]Now because those days and nights came short, it was so written. [[183]] [/b]