Christian Confusion On Crucifixion

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 12:18 PM' timestamp='1255087095' post='1981583']
Is it just me... but I don't see anything contradictory with the three days stuff...

Jesus dies Friday at 3PM - Day 1
Saturday - Day 2
Sunday - Day 3

Jesus died and rose again on the third day. Jesus was killed, Friday 3PM, and after 3 days rose again.

I see no contradiction.
[/quote]
The contradiction exists when people insist that "3 days" must absolutely mean 72 hours. As far as I'm aware, though, the ancient Jews did not hold to such a literal view of time (actually, I'm not sure any of the Near Eastern ancient world did).

[rkwright]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='09 October 2009 - 06:49 AM' timestamp='1255088991' post='1981589']
The contradiction exists when people insist that "3 days" must absolutely mean 72 hours. As far as I'm aware, though, the ancient Jews did not hold to such a literal view of time (actually, I'm not sure any of the Near Eastern ancient world did).
[/quote]

Hm... sounds rediculous either way right?

People say in 3 days and often mean less than or something different than 72 hours. We don't consider them liars do we? So why do we say God must be lying if He spoke as we understand?

This takes literalism to a whole new level.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1255091229' post='1981598']
Hm... sounds rediculous either way right?

People say in 3 days and often mean less than or something different than 72 hours. We don't consider them liars do we? So why do we say God must be lying if He spoke as we understand?

This takes literalism to a whole new level.
[/quote]
Very true. It's fairly rare for people now to be that literal with time, either. I mean, when I spoke of how long I was on holiday, I'd say "I'll be in x for a day, and x for a week, etc", but didn't mean a literal 24 hours for the day, or 7 full days, no more or less, for the week.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 06:18 AM' timestamp='1255087095' post='1981583']
Is it just me... but I don't see anything contradictory with the three days stuff...

Jesus dies Friday at 3PM - Day 1
Saturday - Day 2
Sunday - Day 3

Jesus died and rose again on the third day. Jesus was killed, Friday 3PM, and after 3 days rose again.

I see no contradiction.
[/quote]


And it's for this reason that Christian have not taken the gospel to the world. They do not understand the spirit and they cannot speak the truth. Thanks for a perfect example. Now to see another great example of why this person is talking from tradition instead of truth.

See the study at the link.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

it's becoming more and more evident that people are reading a few posts and trying to jump into the conversation with out first reviewing the study. God was not kidding when he said he would give strong delusion to belive the lies when they did not beilive in His word.

Please make a diagram of Christ dying on friday, rising on Sunday and illustrate how it is 3 days and 3 nights? Oh wait.. I did this for you on more than one page at the link. Your statement fails the very basic concept of time and gives many a reason to doubt and call you crazy. if you don't belive God's witness of his son (prophecy) you make God look like a liar, and you simply look like a dreamer built on speculation instead of a man built solid testimony.

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[rkwright]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1255099207' post='1981637']
And it's for this reason that Christian have not taken the gospel to the world. They do not understand the spirit and they cannot speak the truth. Thanks for a perfect example. Now to see another great example of why this person is talking from tradition instead of truth.

See the study at the link.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

it's becoming more and more evident that people are reading a few posts and trying to jump into the conversation with out first reviewing the study. God was not kidding when he said he would give strong delusion to belive the lies when they did not beilive in His word.

Please make a diagram of Christ dying on friday, rising on Sunday and illustrate how it is 3 days and 3 nights? Oh wait.. I did this for you on more than one page at the link. Your statement fails the very basic concept of time and gives many a reason to doubt and call you crazy. if you don't belive God's witness of his son (prophecy) you make God look like a liar, and you simply look like a dreamer built on speculation instead of a man built solid testimony.

God Bless
[/quote]

Jesus Died on Friday - Day 1.
Saturday - Day 2.
Sunday - Day 3.
Jesus Rises on Day 3.

QED. What am I missing? Other than the extreme literal 72 hour thing Arch Cat brought up, is that your argument? That it wasn't literally 72 hours? Honeslty thats just not convincing.

Now, I understand there isn't 3 nights, but I don't off the top of my head that Jesus said he would die and on the third day and night he would rise again.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1255099701' post='1981639']
Jesus Died on Friday - Day 1.
Saturday - Day 2.
Sunday - Day 3.
Jesus Rises on Day 3.

QED. What am I missing? Other than the extreme literal 72 hour thing Arch Cat brought up, is that your argument? That it wasn't literally 72 hours? Honeslty thats just not convincing.

Now, I understand there isn't 3 nights, but I don't off the top of my head that Jesus said he would die and on the third day and night he would rise again.
[/quote]
I believe the three days & three nights is a reference to Matthew 12:40, when Jesus says that, just as Jonah was in the fish for 3 days & nights, so will He be in the grave for that long. Even with this, though, there is no reason to think that Jonah was necessarily in the fish for 72 exact hours.

[cmotherofpirl]

So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.

[rkwright]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1255103881' post='1981669']
So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.
[/quote]

Staring at the trees? I think you mean staring at the branches.

Edited October 9, 2009 by rkwright

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='09 October 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1255103881' post='1981669']
So you think all Christianity has failed because you have decided they didn't post the exact hours Christ was in the tomb, and after all those years you got it right and so now people will come flocking to the Church? Is this your whole point?

You have been staring at the trees so long you missed the forest.
[/quote]


Christianity has failed because they are not in spirit and in truth. The true worshippers of God are in spirit and in truth. Those of the truth hear God's voice.

1 John 5:6[ [i]The Certainty of God's Witness[/i] ] This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the [b]Spirit[/b] who bears witness, because the [b]Spirit[/b] is [b]truth[/b].

1 John 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the [b]spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b] and the [b]spirit[/b] of error.

1 John 3:24[ [i]The [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]Truth[/b] and the [b]Spirit[/b] of Error[/i] ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the [b]Spirit[/b] whom He has given us.


1 Peter 1:22</H3>[ [i]The Enduring Word[/i] ] Since you have purified your souls in obeying the [b]truth[/b] through the [b]Spirit[/b] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

Ephesians 5:9 for the fruit of the [b]Spirit[/b] is in all goodness, righteousness, and [b]truth[/b]),

John 16:13 However, when He, the [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b], has come, He will guide you into all [b]truth[/b]; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

John 15:26"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the [b]Spirit[/b] of [b]truth[/b] who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

It does not say a book will testify of God. Nor does it say a tradition will testify of God. It does not say that truth is equal to speculation. These are recordings of men who had the sprit of truth within when the words were spoke, since they were born again. The writings of men have been corrupted. This is why Christ warns of you about the doctrines of men. Seek truth from the spirit of truth and you will be a part of the Church Christ started.

This starts by keeping the Laws of god (repentance). It's the beginning of true wisdom. Who among you have spoken truth after all the posts presented in this thread?

God Bless

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='09 October 2009 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1255100649' post='1981643']
I believe the three days & three nights is a reference to Matthew 12:40, when Jesus says that, just as Jonah was in the fish for 3 days & nights, so will He be in the grave for that long. Even with this, though, there is no reason to think that Jonah was necessarily in the fish for 72 exact hours.
[/quote]


It's also in reference to why there is false testimony in your bible.

[b]Two bible verses for the same Prophecy differ regarding true time. One is true scripture (prophecy) and one is false. They cannot both be true since they give [/b][b]two very different perceptions of time when compared to the sign of Jonah prophecy. We know Satan attempted to change God's times as recorded in Daniel [/b][b]7:25. Man and Satan cannot alter true time, but Satan can change our perception of it thought doubt or the manipulation of mans testimony as we saw in the [/b][b]case of the Matthew quote by the third century Christian (bishop) regarding when the ladies went to the tomb. [/b]

Matthew 16:21 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and be raised the third day.[/u][/b] [b]

*This verse supports the concept of the Friday death and first day of week resurrection, which in turn causes men to ignore the sign of Jonah prophecy saying [/b][b]God was allowed to be figurative and not have to be in the tomb for 3 full days and 3 full nights. One undeniable fact consistent with reality is that you do not get [/b][b]3 full days and 3 full nights from a Friday death and first day of the week resurrection. [/b][b]The Friday death scenario causes reason for disbelief in Christ to the unbelieving world and [/b][b]causes conflicting testimonies among the Christian believers. [/b][b]These two differing prophecies within the bible are evidence that Satan tried to change [/b][b]God's time that would bare witness to him! [/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=8&verse=31&version=50&context=verse"][/url][/b]

Mark 8:31 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and after three days rise again.[/u][/b] [b]

*This verse supports 3 full days and 3 full nights as was the sign of Jonah. This supports all the prophecies which align on one single day and one single year in [/b][b]accordance with the laws and testimony of Jesus, restoring credibility that Christ was the son of a perfect God. A Wednesday death fulfills all in the law and [/b][b]prophets restoring Christ credibility to a non believing world.[/b][b] [/b]

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='rkwright' date='09 October 2009 - 10:48 AM' timestamp='1255099701' post='1981639']
Jesus Died on Friday - Day 1.
Saturday - Day 2.
Sunday - Day 3.
Jesus Rises on Day 3.
[/quote]

Exactly, He rose "on the third day" not "after the third day."

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1255111229' post='1981783']
It's also in reference to why there is false testimony in your bible.
[/quote]

Your Bible came after our Bible, friend. And yours is also incomplete, with poor translations.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 October 2009 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1255111484' post='1981786']
Exactly, He rose "on the third day" not "after the third day."
[/quote]

The monestary gospel that is proven to predate the 4 roman bible NT gospels in use today says you just told a lie. There is a difference in opinion regarding Catholic written Doctrine. It's one thing to make the statement you made and offer no evidence.. It's another to call it truth if God did not give it to you to speak.

Luke 24:6-8 KJV
Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified[b], [/b][b][u]and the third day [/u][/b][b][u]rise again[/u][/b][b].'" [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse supports that Christ fell short of his prophecy causing him to lose credibility [/b]

G-12 Equivalent verse:
Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would[b] [/b][b][u]rise again after the third day[/u][/b][b]? [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse show's Christ fulfilled 3 full days and 3 full nights restoring Christ's credibility as the son of God in the mind of the disbeliever.[/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=21&version=50&context=verse"] [/url][/b]

Luke 34:21 KJV Road to Emmaus Verse
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this,[b] [/b][b][u]today is the third day since these things happened[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

G-12 Text Road to Emmaus verse equivalent: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel;[b] [/b][b][u]and beside all this three days have passed since these things were done[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

Luke 24:45-47 KJV
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead the third day[/u][/b][u]: [/u]47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 equivalent verse
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead after the third day[/u][/b][u]. [/u]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 references are taken word for word from the following link [url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]

Edited October 9, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

I tend to not take the King James too seriously.

So I think you are the only Christian I know who disagrees with Christ's Resurrection occurring on that Sunday.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='09 October 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1255111871' post='1981796']
The monestary gospel that is proven to predate the 4 roman bible NT gospels in use today says you just told a lie. There is a difference in opinion regarding Catholic written Doctrine. It's one thing to make the statement you made and offer no evidence.. It's another to call it truth if God did not give it to you to speak.

Luke 24:6-8 KJV
Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified[b], [/b][b][u]and the third day [/u][/b][b][u]rise again[/u][/b][b].'" [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse supports that Christ fell short of his prophecy causing him to lose credibility [/b]

G-12 Equivalent verse:
Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would[b] [/b][b][u]rise again after the third day[/u][/b][b]? [/b][b]*[/b][b]This verse show's Christ fulfilled 3 full days and 3 full nights restoring Christ's credibility as the son of God in the mind of the disbeliever.[/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=21&version=50&context=verse"] [/url][/b]

Luke 34:21 KJV Road to Emmaus Verse
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this,[b] [/b][b][u]today is the third day since these things happened[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

G-12 Text Road to Emmaus verse equivalent: But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel;[b] [/b][b][u]and beside all this three days have passed since these things were done[/u][/b][b]. [/b]

Luke 24:45-47 KJV
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead the third day[/u][/b][u]: [/u]47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 equivalent verse
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures. And said unto them, [b][u]Thus it is written, and thus it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to [/u][/b][b][u]rise from the dead after the third day[/u][/b][u]. [/u]And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in my name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

G-12 references are taken word for word from the following link [url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/gospel_index.htm"]http://reluctant-mes...ospel_index.htm[/url]
[/quote]
So are you a modern Essene?