Christian Confusion On Crucifixion

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1254963763' post='1980441']
the laws missing from Catholic doctrine are a fulfillment to the prophecies mentioned here

And Jesus said unto them, Ye have heard what men in the world say concerning me, but whom do ye say that I am? Peter rose up with Andrew his brother and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, who descendeth from heaven and dwelleth in the hearts of them who believe and obey unto righteousness. And the rest rose up and said, each after his own manner, These words are true, so we believe. 3. And Jesus answered them saying, Blessed are ye my twelve who believe, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but the spirit of God which dwelleth in you. I indeed am the way, the Truth and the Life; and the Truth understandeth all things.[b] [/b][b]4. All truth is in God, and I bear witness unto the truth. I am the true Rock, and on this Rock do I [/b][b]build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it, and out of this Rock shall flow rivers of living water to give life to the peoples [/b][b]of the earth. [/b]5. Ye are my chosen twelve. In me, the Head and Corner stone, are the twelve foundations of my house builded on the rock, and on you in me shall my Church be built, and in truth and righteousness shall my Church be established. 6. And ye shall sit on twelve thrones and send forth light and truth to all the twelve tribes of Israel after the Spirit, and I will be with you, even unto the end of the world.[b] [/b][b]7. But there shall arise after you, men of perverse [/b][b]minds who shall through ignorance or through craft, suppress many things which I have spoken unto you, and lay to me things which I never [/b][b]taught, sowing tares among the good wheat which I have given you to sow in the world. 8. Then shall the truth of God endure the contradiction of [/b][b]sinners, for thus it hath been, and thus it will be. But the time cometh when the things which they have hidden shall be revealed and made known, [/b][b]and the truth shall make free those which were bound. [/b]9. One is your Master, all ye are brethren, and one is not greater than another in the place which I have given unto you, for ye have one Master, even Christ, who is over you and with you and in you, and there is no inequality among my twelve, or their fellows. 10. All are equally near unto me. Strive ye not therefore for the first place, for ye are all first, because ye are the foundation stones and pillars of the Church, built on the truth which is in me and in you, and the truth and the law shall ye establish for all, as shall be given unto you. 11. Verily when ye and your fellows agree together touching anything in my Name, I am in the midst of you and with you. 12.[b] [/b][b]Woe is the time when the spirit of the world [/b][b]entereth into the Church, and my doctrines and precepts are made void through the corruption of men and of women. Woe is the world when the [/b][b]Light is hidden. Woe is the world when these things shall be. [/b][b]

Jeremiah 16: 19-20 [/b][b]19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, The [/b][b][u]Gentiles[/u][/b][b] shall come to You From the ends of the earth and say, [/b][b]“Surely our fathers have inherited lies, Worthlessness and unprofitable [/b][b][i]things.[/i][/b][b]” 20 Will a man make gods for himself, Which [/b][b][i]are[/i][/b][b] not gods?

[/b]
[/quote]
What particular line of Scripture [ the books put together by the Catholic Church and guaranteed by the Catholic Church to be the Word of God] do you take issue with? The fact that christians are an imperfect lot, which is exactly why Jesus left the Catholic church in charge? You just quoted how the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Catholic Church so what is your point?

[Winchester]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1254963305' post='1980437']
I was born and raised a catholic.. for much of my life i professed Christianity even though I thought I broke away from Catholicism. Truth is that the prodastants are bound to Catholic Doctrine and therefore are children of the mother church.. Question to answer truthfully is this. Is the Cahtolic church the mother of truth or the mother of written lies. truth comes from God and needs not to be put on paper. Truth from God must be written on the hearts of men if you are to be born again.

God's Gospel is truth.. as you will see if you take time to test your tradition against the objective truths shared with you on paper in my original post

God Bless
[/quote]
Now here, friend, is where we start to get in the area I like to call the pre-contempt zone. You can be taken seriously or you can be treated like that kid running around named 95+.

I've read. I've spent a great deal of time as both skeptic and believer. You can go down the road of implying I'm some noob or you can state your case without the color commentary. I'm up for a little jab here and there, but how about you drop the arrogance.


I'm not reading a pdf file from someone like you. I've read the best and your style doesn't speak to you holding a candle to them. You boil it down or face it that I won't know and don't care.

(Everyone should read that with a low cowboy voice in mind. Imagine we're all in a saloon. That would be totally awesome).

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1254964970' post='1980460']
What particular line of Scripture [ the books put together by the Catholic Church and guaranteed by the Catholic Church to be the Word of God] do you take issue with? The fact that christians are an imperfect lot, which is exactly why Jesus left the Catholic church in charge? You just quoted how the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Catholic Church so what is your point?
[/quote]


God tells me that you did not read in Full what was just shared with you. Now how silly will you really sound to your self and others when you read in full what you quoted from me and history.

[Winchester]

I'm out.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 October 2009 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1254965583' post='1980471']
Now here, friend, is where we start to get in the area I like to call the pre-contempt zone. You can be taken seriously or you can be treated like that kid running around named 95+.

I've read. I've spent a great deal of time as both skeptic and believer. You can go down the road of implying I'm some noob or you can state your case without the color commentary. I'm up for a little jab here and there, but how about you drop the arrogance.


I'm not reading a pdf file from someone like you. I've read the best and your style doesn't speak to you holding a candle to them. You boil it down or face it that I won't know and don't care.

(Everyone should read that with a low cowboy voice in mind. Imagine we're all in a saloon. That would be totally awesome).
[/quote]

There are some who are deceived to belive there is no God. There are some who are deceived to belive in God for Christ said many will worship him in vein. Then there are those in spirit and in truth who the true worshippers of God are. Do you think they are the ones who dont care?

God Bless

Edited October 8, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 October 2009 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1254965583' post='1980471']
but how about you drop the arrogance.

(Everyone should read that with a low cowboy voice in mind. Imagine we're all in a saloon. That would be totally awesome).
[/quote]


I'm curious to understand at what point I have stated any Arrogance? I have made statements and I have backed up my statements with historical Christian testimony. My statements are both humble and truthful. The evedence that I present bares witness to the truth I am speaking. I have seen many Jabs taken at me and the objective study i have come to share. My replies are very humble. if Not please bare witness in full truth of my arrogance.

My favorite Jab that came my way was where a man in arrogance assumed I stated that the Catholic Church would not have the gates of Hell prevail against it. If he was not in a state of Arrogance he would have read my post in full to know just how silly his perception of truth was when God did not put in his mouth the words of truth to speak.

If his statment were true then this prophecy would have never had a chance to reach fulfilment.

This prophecy is for all the Christian world
[b]"And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, we will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by [/b][b]thy name, to take away our reproach." Isaiah 4:1. [/b][b]

[/b][b][u]Seven[/u][/b][b] represents: Complete, All, finished, totality; complete cycle event aka creation, 7 last plagues, 7 years of good harvest, 7 years of famine [/b][b]7 churches of Revelation called out for their flaws!

[/b][b][u]Woman [/u][/b][b]represents: Church, congreagations of earth, daughter of zion is Pure church, Harot is corrupt church[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]"Shall take hold of one man";[/u][/b][b] represents how all churches in the end time will claim to follow Christ.

[/b][b][u]"We will eat our own bread"[/u][/b][b]; (They reject the true Bread of life-Jesus and His teachings, see John 6:51, and prefer rather to "eat" their own false [/b][b]doctrines and traditions see Isaiah 8:20) This can apply to the 4 bible gospels if they are not every word that proceeded from the mouth of God! The gospel can only come from heaven through the heart of the church of the firstborn. Men and women made perfect through repentance and amendment filled with the spirit of God[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]'and wear our own apparel'[/u][/b][b] (they also reject the pure, white robe of Christ's righteousness and prefer their own system of works and self-[/b][b]righteousness. Denominationalism[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]'only let us be called by Thy name'[/u][/b][b] (they desperately, despite their rebellion against God's Laws, want to be recognized as part of Christ's church, [/b][b]why?)

[/b][b][u]'to take away our reproach'[/u][/b][b]. [/b][b][u]Reproach:[/u][/b][b] an expression of rebuke or disapproval [/b][b]a cause or occasion of blame, discredit, or disgrace [/b]

Edited October 8, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1254961458' post='1980398']
It's not a matter of debate regarding the moon or Asherah. Does the Catholic Church love Christ? Do they Keep His commandments?
[/quote]

A lot of Catholics try to keep God's commandments.

But the bad Catholics like me usually fail miserably.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='07 October 2009 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1254968126' post='1980535']
A lot of Catholics try to keep God's commandments.

But the bad Catholics like me usually fail miserably.
[/quote]


The Laws of god are a way of life. The way of man is creature of habbit. One must learn to break the habbit with the laws that bring eternal life making you and the law one.. just as Christ was one with his Father. Man will only live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Untill that day.. they are not truly living but existing. It's stated in written doctrine that the rightous will judge with wicked. What man must understand is that we are born according to the flesh in wickedness. It's our own wickedness that one must judge against the wisdom of the Law to be rightious in Christ and purified by the Fire of the spirit of Christ. Not even God can forgive a man if he does not repent, for the end result of sin is death.

Whosoever continue in sin.. their sin is retained. Whoso repent and make amendment with his brother/sister/mother/father/and heavenly parent, their sin is forgiven them. Go and sin no more says our Lord. Those who walk in the day (spirit and light of God/Law) no longer stumble. Those who walk in the night do not know what makes them stumble.

God be with you and may he strengthen you to love Him.

God Bless to all who seek that which is lost.

Edited October 8, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1254965854' post='1980480']
God tells me that you did not read in Full what was just shared with you. Now how silly will you really sound to your self and others when you read in full what you quoted from me and history.
[/quote]
Good way not to answer my question....
God tells me you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1254967554' post='1980521']
I'm curious to understand at what point I have stated any Arrogance? I have made statements and I have backed up my statements with historical Christian testimony. My statements are both humble and truthful. The evedence that I present bares witness to the truth I am speaking. I have seen many Jabs taken at me and the objective study i have come to share. My replies are very humble. if Not please bare witness in full truth of my arrogance.

My favorite Jab that came my way was where a man in arrogance assumed I stated that the Catholic Church would not have the gates of Hell prevail against it. If he was not in a state of Arrogance he would have read my post in full to know just how silly his perception of truth was when God did not put in his mouth the words of truth to speak.

If his statment were true then this prophecy would have never had a chance to reach fulfilment.

This prophecy is for all the Christian world
[b]"And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, we will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by [/b][b]thy name, to take away our reproach." Isaiah 4:1. [/b][b]

[/b][b][u]Seven[/u][/b][b] represents: Complete, All, finished, totality; complete cycle event aka creation, 7 last plagues, 7 years of good harvest, 7 years of famine [/b][b]7 churches of Revelation called out for their flaws!

[/b][b][u]Woman [/u][/b][b]represents: Church, congreagations of earth, daughter of zion is Pure church, Harot is corrupt church[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]"Shall take hold of one man";[/u][/b][b] represents how all churches in the end time will claim to follow Christ.

[/b][b][u]"We will eat our own bread"[/u][/b][b]; (They reject the true Bread of life-Jesus and His teachings, see John 6:51, and prefer rather to "eat" their own false [/b][b]doctrines and traditions see Isaiah 8:20) This can apply to the 4 bible gospels if they are not every word that proceeded from the mouth of God! The gospel can only come from heaven through the heart of the church of the firstborn. Men and women made perfect through repentance and amendment filled with the spirit of God[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]'and wear our own apparel'[/u][/b][b] (they also reject the pure, white robe of Christ's righteousness and prefer their own system of works and self-[/b][b]righteousness. Denominationalism[/b][b]

[/b][b][u]'only let us be called by Thy name'[/u][/b][b] (they desperately, despite their rebellion against God's Laws, want to be recognized as part of Christ's church, [/b][b]why?)

[/b][b][u]'to take away our reproach'[/u][/b][b]. [/b][b][u]Reproach:[/u][/b][b] an expression of rebuke or disapproval [/b][b]a cause or occasion of blame, discredit, or disgrace [/b]
[/quote]
Maybe the arrogance part comes from your flawed perception that we haven't read or studied Scripture, or that your unique interpretation is the only way to read the verses you have picked out. Scriptures are the product of the Catholic Church who guarantees them as the Word of God.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1254969699' post='1980560']
Good way not to answer my question....
God tells me you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
[/quote]


the evidence at the provided link which you refused to read before passing judgment states otherwise. Where is the credibility of your statement and the validation that God put in your mouth the judgment in which you speak?

Mine is as follows with 55 pages of objective truth giving Christ the credibility the Christian world has failed to do for 1,977 years when the first Christians from Antioch first called themselves Christians because they separated from "THE WAY".

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

Please illustrate for me the page number where I do not have a clue. Bare witness that your words are true. Your words must be accounted for.

Many Blessings to you.

Edited October 8, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[eagle_eye222001]

You sure like posting a lot of fluff. I am not sure what to respond to. You talk about one thing, and ask ambiguous questions, we give answers, and then you kinda dance around our responses and ask some more ambiguous questions....

Bottom line is if you want to be treated seriously, ask serious questions that are clear. Spreading your version of God's truth or whatever in the manner you are doing so is very confusing and won't win any converts.

If you really want to spread this "spirit and truth" do it in an understandable manner please or you will find that we will stop responding. Also your repeated misconceptions of Catholicism is really hurting you right now. If your spirit and truth is so great, it should be able to be presented in an understandable manner.

Really not sure where you are going with any of this.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='07 October 2009 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1254970308' post='1980570']
the evidence at the provided link states which you refused to read before passing judgment states otherwise. Where is the credibility of your statement?

Mine is as follows with 55 pages of objective truth giving christ the credibility the Christian world has failed to do for 1977 years when the first Christians from Antioch first called themselves Christians because they separated from "THE WAY".

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf[/url]

Please illustrate for me the page number where I do not have a clue.

Many Blessings to you.
[/quote]
Todd maybe you are missing my point. Jesus Christ ALREADY has credibility for me - I'm CATHOLIC: He is the Son of the Living God, the Messiah. As Dust pointed out the other day - 30 years obeying, 3 years teaching, 3 hours redeeming. He founded the Catholic Church - the only institution that has lasted for 2000 years since founded at Pentecost. I can receive Jesus when I go to Holy Communion at Mass. Where is the debate?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1254970065' post='1980567']
Maybe the arrogance part comes from your flawed perception that we haven't read or studied Scripture, or that your unique interpretation is the only way to read the verses you have picked out. Scriptures are the product of the Catholic Church who guarantees them as the Word of God.
[/quote]


Example of Scripture. Christ said "three days and three nights".. Christians say... "god did not have to be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights"

God Says "do i not speak and then fulfil"

Here are two verses of mans testimony for a single event in history. Only one is scripture for only one of these statements proceeded from the mouth of God, both are in your bible. One is good seed sown in the field and the other is bad seed sown in the night by Christ's enemy in the same field. Can you use God's perception to determine which is the truth?

Matthew 16:21 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and be raised the third day.[/u][/b]

Mark 8:31 KJV [ [i]Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection[/i] ] And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, [b][u]and after three days rise again.[/u][/b]

How well have you studies scripture when many Christians today say the bible is perfect and with out flaw?

God's word is perfect. Gods word is the voice of truth from heaven that the bible attempts to record. Can you hear that voice? This is a way to know if you are His child.

God Bless

Edited October 8, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[Laudate_Dominum]

dude, I think of pearl jam every time I see ur SN. I know, I'm lame. and you get that a lot, how boring, predictable and obnoxious.. I know, I know.. the story of my life.