todd_vetter33 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1255204146' post='1982498'] No, it is NOT clear. You, once again, are turning your opinion into objective fact. God could have told Eve "behind the scenes" not to eat the fruit. God could have told Adam to tell Eve "behind the scenes." Or Adam could have taken it upon himself to tell Eve (again "behind the scenes" - i.e. not explicitly stated in Scripture). Beyond that, Eve gave in to temptation and ate the fruit because she had the free will to choose whether or not she would do so. The Devil is cunning. It had nothing to do with "Adam putting words in God's mouth." How absolutely ridiculous. Let's pretend that you are absolutely correct. (A horrifying thought, I know.) You are saying that Eve sinned because of Adam, NOT because of her God-given free will, and NOT because the Devil is seductive. In the end, as I stated earlier, we don't know the absolute specifics of WHO told Eve and HOW she was told. And in truth it doesn't matter. Once again, you are focusing on and obsessing over such a minute detail that is so irrelevant to Christianity. [/quote] Yes Eve had free will. Satan deceived her to go against the will of God of her own free will by convicing her that she would not surely Die. It's clear what God has said when we see what God Spoke to Adam. ""[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [b][u][sup]17[/sup] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."[/u][/b] " It can be clearly seen That God did not instruct Adam Or Eve Not to touch the Tree. By putting the story into the context of time it's clear that Eve was repeating what Adam had told her God has said. Yet we see that what Eve believes God has said is very different from What God actually spoke. What part of this is my personal interpretation. This is a very clear message. This is why it's important for you to understand when God said 3 days and 3 nights.. He meant it. To say less is half the truth as you see satan using to deceive Eve. Sorry if this information up sets you. It's you that wants to jump into conversations with out reviewing the topic of discussion in full before interjecting. The end result of your actions is your own fault. This is Free will. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd_vetter33 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1255204146' post='1982498'] No, it is NOT clear. You, once again, are turning your opinion into objective fact. God could have told Eve "behind the scenes" not to eat the fruit. God could have told Adam to tell Eve "behind the scenes." Or Adam could have taken it upon himself to tell Eve (again "behind the scenes" - i.e. not explicitly stated in Scripture). Beyond that, Eve gave in to temptation and ate the fruit because she had the free will to choose whether or not she would do so. The Devil is cunning. It had nothing to do with "Adam putting words in God's mouth." How absolutely ridiculous. Let's pretend that you are absolutely correct. (A horrifying thought, I know.) You are saying that Eve sinned because of Adam, NOT because of her God-given free will, and NOT because the Devil is seductive. In the end, as I stated earlier, we don't know the absolute specifics of WHO told Eve and HOW she was told. And in truth it doesn't matter. Once again, you are focusing on and obsessing over such a minute detail that is so irrelevant to Christianity. [/quote] Yes Eve had free will. Satan deceived her to go against the will of God of her own free will by convicing her that she would not surely Die. It's clear what God has said when we see what God Spoke to Adam. ""[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [b][u][sup]17[/sup] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."[/u][/b] " It can be clearly seen That God did not instruct Adam Or Eve Not to touch the Tree. By putting the story into the context of time it's clear that Eve was repeating what Adam had told her God has said. Yet we see that what Eve believes God has said is very different from What God actually spoke. What part of this is my personal interpretation. This is a very clear message. This is why it's important for you to understand when God said 3 days and 3 nights.. He meant it. To say less is half the truth as you see satan using to decieve Eve. Sorry if this information up sets you. It's you that wants to jump into conversations with out reviewing the topic of discussion in full before interjecting. The end result of your actions is your own fault. This is Free will. God Bless Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 In sum, Toddy here has constructed his own version of Christianity, which I hereby dub "pseudo-Christianity." The only authority he has presented is himself - the subjective opinions of a fallible man turned into the objective commands of an infallible God. Since he is the only "Christian" who has gotten it right so far, he will be the only one who makes it into Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd_vetter33 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1255204931' post='1982505'] In sum, Toddy here has constructed his own version of Christianity, which I hereby dub "pseudo-Christianity." The only authority he has presented is himself - the subjective opinions of a fallible man turned into the objective commands of an infallible God. Since he is the only "Christian" who has gotten it right so far, he will be the only one who makes it into Heaven. [/quote] Later in Genesis testimony here is what God says to Adam. [sup][size="2"]Gen 3 [sup][size="2"][/size][/sup]11[/size][/sup] And He said, “Who told you that you [i]were[/i] naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” God does not say.. Have you eaten from the tree that i commanded you not to eat from or touch. Please illustrate for me what part of this I am making up? I'm only developing a perceptoin based on the testimony incorrelation with real time. God Bless<BR \> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Toddy quotes the Scriptures, where God tells Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit: [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1255204657' post='1982502'] It's clear what God has said when we see what God Spoke to Adam. ""[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [b][u][sup]17[/sup] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."[/u][/b][/quote] Toddy then tells us that God did not tell Adam to not eat the forbidden fruit: [quote] It can be clearly seen That God did not instruct Adam Or Eve Not to touch the Tree. [/quote] But then Toddy changes his mind and decides that yes, God told Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit, and Adam told Eve this: (Oh and Toddy refrains from explaining what the "context of the time" is, and how it influences our reading of the passage) [quote] By putting the story into the context of time it's clear that Eve was repeating what Adam had told her God has said. Yet we see that what Eve believes God has said is very different from What God actually spoke. [/quote] Toddy then insists that this is objective, even though he contradicted himself nicely and provided no authoritative sources for his claims (other than himself, of course): [quote] What part of this is my personal interpretation. This is a very clear message. This is why it's important for you to understand when God said 3 days and 3 nights.. He meant it. [/quote] Toddy takes a stab at cleverness: [quote] The end result of your actions is your own fault. This is Free will. [/quote] Edited October 10, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd_vetter33 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1255205299' post='1982510'] Toddy quotes the Scriptures, where God tells Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit: Toddy then tells us that God did not tell Adam to not eat the forbidden fruit: But then Toddy changes his mind and decides that yes, God told Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit, and Adam told Eve this: (Oh and Toddy refrains from explaining what the "context of the time" is, and how it influences our reading of the passage) Toddy then insists that this is objective, even though he contradicted himself nicely and provided no authoritative sources for his claims (other than himself, of course): Toddy takes a stab at cleverness: [/quote] See duration of thread to see where Toddy illustrates that HIS CHILD has only accidently spoken objective truth out of all her posts one time. She still has not viewed in full, the link for the topic of discussion and persists to make a shame of herself in a fit of blind pride which she believes is faith. Blind faith is a doctrine of the blind, for the blind to keep the blind going no where. Take some time to review what you have dubbed the [b]fifty-five pages[/b] of Adobe, with crazy text colors and graphs that look like chicken scratch; and you may still have a chance to have something objective and truthful to add to this conversation. If your not interested in contributing to discovering or validating objective truth. you have the free will to gracefully bow out of this conversation and there are no regrets for each makes the bed they LIE in. God Bless Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 why is Bed capitalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Dear Toddy, [s]HIS CHILD[/s] HCF is not interested in your fifty-five pages of chicken scratch because she was almost blinded by the crazy text colors and squiggly arrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='MIkolbe' date='10 October 2009 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1255206576' post='1982519'] why is Bed capitalized? [/quote] Because Mr. Infallible deemed it necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Your theory cannot work, Todd. Adam could not have corrupted God's word when he relayed it to Eve because he did not get have a fallen nature. He had not sinned, and Man was still perfect. Therefore he could not have misled Eve by getting God's commandments wrong. EDIT: Addition for clarity. Before the fall of Man, Man's nature was perfectly in tune with God's. Therefore, for Adam to misstate what he was told by God, it would have had to be intentional. For Adam to intentionally misstate what God had told him would have been sinful. Man was not yet fallen, therefore Adam had not yet sinner, therefore he could not have misstated what God told him. Edited October 10, 2009 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd_vetter33 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1255206806' post='1982522'] Dear Toddy, [s]HIS CHILD[/s] HCF is not interested in your fifty-five pages of chicken scratch because she was almost blinded by the crazy text colors and squiggly arrows. [/quote] Then your more than welcome to bow out. It was a pleasure using you as the perfect example of why others need to read the [b]fifty-five pages[/b] of Adobe, with crazy text colors and graphs that look like chicken scratch Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1255204657' post='1982502'] Yes Eve had free will. Satan deceived her to go against the will of God of her own free will by convicing her that she would not surely Die. It's clear what God has said when we see what God Spoke to Adam. ""[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [b][u][sup]17[/sup] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."[/u][/b] " It can be clearly seen That God did not instruct Adam Or Eve Not to touch the Tree. By putting the story into the context of time it's clear that Eve was repeating what Adam had told her God has said. Yet we see that what Eve believes God has said is very different from What God actually spoke. What part of this is my personal interpretation. This is a very clear message. This is why it's important for you to understand when God said 3 days and 3 nights.. He meant it. To say less is half the truth as you see satan using to decieve Eve. Sorry if this information up sets you. It's you that wants to jump into conversations with out reviewing the topic of discussion in full before interjecting. The end result of your actions is your own fault. This is Free will. God Bless [/quote] Why is "Or" capitalized? Why is "Free" capitalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1255207011' post='1982529'] Then your more than welcome to bow out. It was a pleasure using you as the perfect example of why others need to read the [b]fifty-five pages[/b] of Adobe, with crazy text colors and graphs that look like chicken scratch Good luck to you. [/quote] Warning: Reading the fifty-five pages of chicken scratch could cause blindness and pseudo-fundamentalism. Proceed at your own risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 [quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1255201606' post='1982485'] To see this you have to present more truth than what you are presenting. we covered this when we said that half the truth is Satan's perfect lie. What God Said to Adam Genesis 2:15 [b][sup][size="2"]15[/size][/sup][/b] Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. [sup][b][size="2"]16[/size][/b][/sup] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [u][b][sup][size="2"]17[/size][/sup] [color="#0000ff"]but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you [/color][color="#ff0000"]shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die[/color]."[/b][/u] [color="#4b0082"]Next few verses you will notice that Eve is made. [/color] [b][sup][size="2"]18[/size][/sup][/b] And the LORD God said, "[i]It is[/i] not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." [sup][b][size="2"]19[/size][/b][/sup] Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought [i]them[/i] to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that [i]was[/i] its name. [sup][b][size="2"]20[/size][/b][/sup] So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. <BR \>[sup][b][size="2"]21[/size][/b][/sup] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. [sup][b][size="2"]22[/size][/b][/sup] Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. [sup][b][size="2"]23[/size][/b][/sup] And Adam said: "This [i]is[/i] now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." Genesis 3 [sup][b][size="2"]1[/size][/b][/sup] Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "[color="#0000ff"]Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?" [color="#800080"]Here we see Satan quoting God in half the truth that God has said to Adam; when we see satan speaking to Eve.[/color] [/color][sup][b][size="2"]2[/size][/b][/sup] And the woman said to the serpent, "[color="#0000ff"]We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; [sup][b][size="2"]3[/size][/b][/sup] but of the fruit of the tree which [i]is[/i] in the midst of the garden, [u]God has said[/u], 'You shall not eat it, [color="#ff0000"]nor shall you touch it,[/color] lest you die.'"[/color] [color="#800080"]Here we see that "[u]God has said[/u]".. It does not say that God has said to eve, so it's clear she was repeating what she believed was told directly from God to Adam. When Adam relayed the message from God to Eve, he added "nor shall you touch it". It was Adam who added to what [u][b]God has said[/b][/u]. As soon as Eve repeated what God did not say, it gave Satan a reason to sow doubt and sell it to her that she would not surely die.[/color] [sup][b][size="2"]4[/size][/b][/sup] Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. [sup][b][size="2"]5[/size][/b][/sup] For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [sup][b][size="2"]6[/size][/b][/sup] So when the woman saw that the tree [i]was[/i] good for food, that it [i]was[/i] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make [i]one[/i] wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. [sup][b][size="2"]7[/size][/b][/sup] Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [i]were[/i] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Nice try.. keep seeking to hear the voice of truth. God Bless<BR \> [/quote] why is "Said" capitalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starets Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Todd, are you a member of the Worldwide Church of G0d or soem other strain of Armstrongism, yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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