Christian Confusion On Crucifixion

[reyb]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1255180841' post='1982329']
It appears that no one is interested in this topic even though it has had many views and many replies in debate. What I have discovered is that a human can be programmed to belive anything if only backed by speculations, and pride can cloud the mind and keep it from performing simple math skills, basic reading and comprehension.

It's time for me to move on to a new Forum to share the treasure that God has given me to invest. Each of you have received this talent. Question is... will you invest or be the one who buried your treasure until the master returned to take account?
[/quote]

What do you mean by saying '3 days and 3 nights in God's Calendar'?

[reyb]

[b][/b][quote name='todd_vetter33' date='06 October 2009 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1254880783' post='1979582']
Please read in full and text evidence presented before giving objective responses.

With much of the Christian world all making good cases for a Friday crucifixion, Thurday crucifixion and even a Wednesday crucifixion, I decided to take it upon myself to test all that I could find on this topic and put it all to the test using the Prophecies as a baseline for truth regarding this topic. What I have found is pretty solid and amazing yet it poses new questions that have been answered by much of my findings. I am however curious what your answers will be to my questions but first i would like you to review the answers I ojbectively present in the link referenced study so that you will be able to present why your understanding is more correct than what I have discovered.

My questions are as follows:

Why does the bible in it's current state of Preservation not illustrate the fulfillment of the 4 day prophecy in Exodus 12. In exodus 12 the Lamb (Christ) was to be chosen by the people on the tenth day of the first month. On the 14th day Christ (the Lamb) was to be killed. The only event that fits this symbolism of the Lamb being chosen by the people is the triumphal entry, yet the bible does not illustrate this being fulfilled since the anointing At Bethany according to John places the triumphal entry on the 9th Day of the first month. Both Matt and Mark place the anointing Event 2 days before Passover (12 Nissan) and if the triumphal entry happened the next day (13 Nissan), you still do not have the Lamb being chosen by the people on the 10th day per the Law of Moses which Christ claimed to have fulfilled.

There is a non canonized Gospel that was found in 1877 in a monastery in Tibet which illustrates exodus 12 in fulfillment. Why does the bible have Errors when people today claim it is infallible? By making false statements are they in spirit and in truth? Can they not hear God's voice which does tell truth and the full truth?



If the official story regarding the history of the 4 gospels was truth why is this study able to give solid credibile evidence that the 4 bible gospels came from a single written gospel source?

Here is a link that I have built which causes me to ask questions and provide the information which provokes the questions. Can you find any page of testimony presented that is not telling the truth based on what is presented?

By page 36, do you believe the information presented illustrates accurately enough why the Christian world is divided and in a state of denominational confusion? Can you answer any of these questions with certain truth after reviewing the information which provokes the questions?



Are your answers speculation or as God’s child did he speak the truth in your ear to answer these question?



[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf[/url]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font]
[/quote]

Suppose you are correct about your ‘new found’ but ‘too late’ inconsistencies. How come you said, it was made by the Gospel writers and not by someone’s (including yourself) erroneous interpretation to the scripture which brought this kind of ‘inconsistencies’?

Okay let us discuss Matt 27:54

54 [b]When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!" [/b]
NIV

What they (centurion and guards) saw in these verse? What do you think the statement ‘[b]all that had happened[/b]’ referring to?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 05:09 AM' timestamp='1255165782' post='1982295']
Isn't it Lovely and amazing How God gives us all a choice. Did you enjoy Going out???? i'm Guessing you read below statement the first time i shared it with you, but you didn't hear a word of it. It was spoken many years ago by Christ just for you, and the many like you. It was shared with you before you left to go be about your own pleasures. Yet you still displayed perfectly why you need to understand it even though your may have already read it.
[/quote]

Excuse me, there is nothing sinful about going out with my friend. Jesus had friends too, you know.

[reyb]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1255180841' post='1982329']
It appears that no one is interested in this topic even though it has had many views and many replies in debate. What I have discovered is that a human can be programmed to belive anything if only backed by speculations, and pride can cloud the mind and keep it from performing simple math skills, basic reading and comprehension.

It's time for me to move on to a new Forum to share the treasure that God has given me to invest. Each of you have received this talent. Question is... will you invest or be the one who buried your treasure until the master returned to take account?
[/quote]

Okay I will make it easy for you so that we may discuss your new found inconsistencies – whether it is four days or three days or whatever number of days regarding Christ death.

Matt 27:50-54

50 [b]And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!" [/b]
NIV
-----------------------------------
Now, did the centurion and the guards saw the following;

1. Jesus on the cross while dying.
2. Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom.
3. Earth shook and rock split.
4. Tomb broke open and the bodies of holy people raised to life and appeared to many people in the holy city.

Did the centurion and the guards saw all of these in this particular verse? (as it is written,
‘54 [b]When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened....[/b])

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 10:34 AM' timestamp='1255188899' post='1982369']
Excuse me, there is nothing sinful about going out with my friend. Jesus had friends too, you know. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[/quote]


I was referring to your ability to bare false witness and assume to maintain clean and clear [font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]conscience. Last time i read the Law bareing false witness is a sin. You have done this since you began interjecting in this thread.

If you belive All catholic Doctrine is true. Take some good catholic advice.

1 corinthians 14:33-35
[b][sup][size="2"]33[/size][/sup][/b] For God is not [i]the author[/i] of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. <BR \>[sup][b][size="2"]34[/size][/b][/sup] Let your[sup][size="2"][[/size][url="#fen-NKJV-28709a"][size="2"]a[/size][/url][size="2"]][/size][/sup] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but [i]they are[/i] to be submissive, as the law also says. [sup][b][size="2"]35[/size][/b][/sup] And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

But remember an amazing lesson from Genesis. Eve took direction from Adam who added to the Word of the Lord and it led to their downfall.

Think of Christ as the bride groom and you are the bride. Take direction from the husband who can speak to those who are of the truth.

God Bless

P.S. Thanks for so many amazing examples of why you still need Christ. <BR \>[/size][/font]

[rkwright]

hahaha...

todd you can't expect us to take that seriously can you?

Awaiting HisChild's response....

BTW HisChild... Patience is a virtue!!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1255191596' post='1982384']
Last time i read the Law bareing false witness is a sin. You have done this since you began interjecting in this thread.[/quote]

Okay. So first you decide that you're the infallible authority of the Scriptures. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were sitting at your computer dressed like the Pope right now. (Don't get ahead of yourself, it's not Halloween yet.) Now you are judging my soul and my relationship with Christ. I suppose you selectively ignore the verse in the New Testament where Christ tells his disciples to remove the beam in their eye before proceeding to remove the splinter in their neighbors'. I wouldn't be surprised if you did selectively ignore that, because it seems that in each one of your posts you have a different opinion of the Bible.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='rkwright' date='10 October 2009 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1255192229' post='1982391']
hahaha...

todd you can't expect us to take that seriously can you?

Awaiting HisChild's response....

BTW HisChild... Patience is a virtue!!
[/quote]

HCF, please. Makes me sound cooler.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1255192698' post='1982395']
Okay. So first you decide that you're the infallible authority of the Scriptures. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were sitting at your computer dressed like the Pope right now. (Don't get ahead of yourself, it's not Halloween yet.) Now you are judging my soul and my relationship with Christ. I suppose you selectively ignore the verse in the New Testament where Christ tells his disciples to remove the beam in their eye before proceeding to remove the splinter in their neighbors'. I wouldn't be surprised if you did selectively ignore that, because it seems that in each one of your posts you have a different opinion of the Bible.
[/quote]


Those who walk in the day no longer stumble. Those who walk in the night do not know what makes them stumble. Is it my fault you don't believe Words Christ spoke?

[reyb]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1255195651' post='1982417']
Those who walk in the day no longer stumble. Those who walk in the night do not know what makes them stumble. Is it my fault you don't believe Words Christ spoke?
[/quote]

Please let us go back to our discussion.

Todd,

Do you really believe that Gospel writers are telling ‘half truth’?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1255195651' post='1982417']
Those who walk in the day no longer stumble. Those who walk in the night do not know what makes them stumble. Is it my fault you don't believe Words Christ spoke?
[/quote]

So I suppose you are the absolute judge of souls, right? Here to correct us of our wrongs with your pages and pages of conspiracy theory nonsense? Because your opinion is so enlightened?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='rkwright' date='10 October 2009 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1255192229' post='1982391']
hahaha...

todd you can't expect us to take that seriously can you?

Awaiting HisChild's response....

BTW HisChild... Patience is a virtue!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]

That was another attempt at humor. LOL. The lesson from Genesis though is very real. When God made Adam, God instructed Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of Good and Evil or he would die. Eve was not even made yet when God issued this commandment to Adam. After Eve was made it was Adam who relayed the command to Eve and when He did, He said to her; "Do not eat of this tree or touch it lest you die."
"
Because Adam Added to the Word that God spoke, It gave lucifer what he needed to deceive Eve by convincing Eve that the truth in the statement was not solid.

It's because of this That mankind is in the state we are in. Reference.. see story of Genesis. If you want "his Child" to look good tell her to keep the laws of God. It's the beginning of wisdom.

If you don't get your truth from God. Is it really truth?

On another note.. I know you asked that I keep posts in this thread and re-frain from links that goto other websites. Unfortunately this thread is in regard to the information posted at the other site and therefore must be referenced and also reviewed before one can interject in this thread in order to cover objectivly the topic at hand; "Christian confusion on the resurrection, 3 days and 3 nights by God's calendar." It's for this reason that I kindly asked all to carefully review the information.

In Truth i can say this:

It's either the greatest deception ever invented by putting Catholic doctrine to the test against real time which we know to be solid, or it's one of the most objective truth's to surface in the Christian world for many centuries. I leave that to each of you who may have peeked an interest to decide for yourself, but to make an educated determination it must be reviewed.

Below are just a few verses of Catholic Doctrine as to why "His Child" needs to be more careful with what she claims is truth. I'm giving this to you to share with her since she is clearly not listening to me and she is reaching out to you to make her look better.
[color="#008000"][/color][list=1][*]Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;They go astray as soon as they are born, [b]speak[/b]ing [b]lie[/b]s.[*]Proverbs 6:19 A false witness who [b]speak[/b]s [b]lie[/b]s, And one who sows discord among brethren.
[color="#008000"][/color][*][b][u][color="#0000ff"]Proverbs 14:25 A true witness delivers souls, But a deceitful witness speaks lies.[/color][/u][/b][*]Proverbs 19:5 A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who [b]speak[/b]s [b]lie[/b]s will not escape.[*]Proverbs 19:9 A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who [b]speak[/b]s [b]lie[/b]s shall perish.
[color="#008000"][/color][*]Isaiah 59:4 No one calls for justice, Nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and [b]speak[/b] [b]lie[/b]s; They conceive evil and bring forth iniquity.
[color="#008000"][/color][*]Jeremiah 9:5 Everyone take heed to his neighbor, And do not trust any brother; For every brother will utterly supplant, And every neighbor will walk with slanderers. 5. Everyone will deceive his neighbor, And will not speak the truth; They have taught their tongue to speak lies; They weary themselves to commit iniquity. [sup][b][size="2"]6[/size][/b][/sup] Your dwelling place [i]is[/i] in the midst of deceit; Through deceit they refuse to know Me," says the LORD[/list]With this being said.. I urge and beg for you not to trust me since you do not know me. Test all things and keep that which is good. Seek truth from Heaven. God's real children WILL and DO hear God's Voice.

I am here to share what I have learned, Not to embarras anyone or make them look foolish. I come bringing a presentation of Objective truth to check the balance of all Christian traditional claims in all denominations. I am not here to judge you for only you can do this. The rightous will judge the wicked. We are born in wickedness and must judge ourselves unto rightousness.

It's interesting that I was not going to come back here. I took the studies to share at another Catholic webite and the post lasted for 5 minutes before I was kicked out of the electronic synagog and banned from ever returning. What lie is in my study that the moderator did not feel was right to be judged by the population of the chat forum?

Was this a fulfilment of Prophecy that I would be kicked out of the synagog?

Very Respectfully,

Todd Vetter


Many blessings to you all Even God's child

God Bless

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1255197452' post='1982440']
That was another attempt at humor. LOL. The lesson from Genesis though is very real. When God made Adam, God instructed Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of Good and Evil or he would die. Eve was not even made yet when God issued this commandment to Adam. After Eve was made it was Adam who relayed the command to Eve and when He did, He said to her; "Do not eat of this tree or touch it lest you die." Because Adam Added to the Word that God spoke, It gave lucifer what he needed to deceive Eve by convincing Eve that the truth in the statement was not solid. [/quote]

Actually, God told Eve.

Genesis 3:1-3 [New American Bible]:
[b]Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the LORD God had made. The serpent asked the woman, "Did God really tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?" The woman answered the serpent: "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden [u]that God said[/u], 'You shall not eat it or even touch it, lest you die.'"[/b]

Can you please provide the specific verse where Adam tells Eve about the forbidden fruit, and where Adam "added" on to God's command? Unless my Bible is being corrupt again. Silly Bible!

[quote] If you want "his Child" to look good [/quote]
[quote] since she is clearly not listening to me and she is reaching out to you to make her look better.[/quote]

Hey now, there's no reason to be rude. I already look good.

[quote] I took the studies to share at another Catholic webite and the post lasted for 5 minutes before I was kicked out of the electronic synagog and banned from ever returning. [/quote]

Yeah that's probably because your little website thinks the Papacy is some huge conspiracy.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 October 2009 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1255197998' post='1982446']
Actually, God told Eve.

Genesis 3:1-3 [New American Bible]:
[b]Now the serpent was the most cunning of all the animals that the LORD God had made. The serpent asked the woman, "Did God really tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?" The woman answered the serpent: "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden [u]that God said[/u], 'You shall not eat it or even touch it, lest you die.'"[/b]

Can you please provide the specific verse where Adam tells Eve about the forbidden fruit, and where Adam "added" on to God's command? Unless my Bible is being corrupt again. Silly Bible!




Hey now, there's no reason to be rude. I already look good.



Yeah that's probably because your little website thinks the Papacy is some huge conspiracy.
[/quote]

To see this you have to present more truth than what you are presenting. we covered this when we said that half the truth is Satan's perfect lie.

What God Said to Adam

Genesis 2:15

[b][sup][size="2"]15[/size][/sup][/b] Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. [sup][b][size="2"]16[/size][/b][/sup] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "[u]Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;[/u] [u][b][sup][size="2"]17[/size][/sup] [color="#0000ff"]but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you [/color][color="#ff0000"]shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die[/color]."[/b][/u]

[color="#4b0082"]Next few verses you will notice that Eve is made.
[/color]
[b][sup][size="2"]18[/size][/sup][/b] And the LORD God said, "[i]It is[/i] not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." [sup][b][size="2"]19[/size][/b][/sup] Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought [i]them[/i] to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that [i]was[/i] its name. [sup][b][size="2"]20[/size][/b][/sup] So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. <BR \>[sup][b][size="2"]21[/size][/b][/sup] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. [sup][b][size="2"]22[/size][/b][/sup] Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. [sup][b][size="2"]23[/size][/b][/sup] And Adam said: "This [i]is[/i] now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."

Genesis 3

[sup][b][size="2"]1[/size][/b][/sup] Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "[color="#0000ff"]Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?"

[color="#800080"]Here we see Satan quoting God in half the truth that God has said to Adam; when we see satan speaking to Eve.[/color]

[/color][sup][b][size="2"]2[/size][/b][/sup] And the woman said to the serpent, "[color="#0000ff"]We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; [sup][b][size="2"]3[/size][/b][/sup] but of the fruit of the tree which [i]is[/i] in the midst of the garden, [u]God has said[/u], 'You shall not eat it, [color="#ff0000"]nor shall you touch it,[/color] lest you die.'"[/color]

[color="#800080"]Here we see that "[u]God has said[/u]".. It does not say that God has said to eve, so it's clear she was repeating what she believed was told directly from God to Adam. When Adam relayed the message from God to Eve, he added "nor shall you touch it". It was Adam who added to what [u][b]God has said[/b][/u]. As soon as Eve repeated what God did not say, it gave Satan a reason to sow doubt and sell it to her that she would not surely die.[/color]

[sup][b][size="2"]4[/size][/b][/sup] Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. [sup][b][size="2"]5[/size][/b][/sup] For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [sup][b][size="2"]6[/size][/b][/sup] So when the woman saw that the tree [i]was[/i] good for food, that it [i]was[/i] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make [i]one[/i] wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. [sup][b][size="2"]7[/size][/b][/sup] Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they [i]were[/i] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Nice try.. keep seeking to hear the voice of truth.

God Bless<BR \>

Edited October 10, 2009 by todd_vetter33

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='10 October 2009 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1255201606' post='1982485']
[/color][sup][b][size="2"]2[/size][/b][/sup] And the woman said to the serpent, "[color="#0000ff"]We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; [sup][b][size="2"]3[/size][/b][/sup] but of the fruit of the tree which [i]is[/i] in the midst of the garden, [u]God has said[/u], 'You shall not eat it, [color="#ff0000"]nor shall you touch it,[/color] lest you die.'"[/color]

[color="#800080"]Here we see that "[u]God has said[/u]".. It does not say that God has said to eve, so it's clear she was repeating what she believed was told directly from God to Adam. When Adam relayed the message from God to Eve, he added "nor shall you touch it". It was Adam who added to what [u][b]God has said[/b][/u]. As soon as Eve repeated what God did not say, it gave Satan a reason to sow doubt and sell it to her that she would not surely die.[/color]
[/quote]

No, it is NOT clear. You, once again, are turning your opinion into objective fact. God could have told Eve "behind the scenes" not to eat the fruit. God could have told Adam to tell Eve "behind the scenes." Or Adam could have taken it upon himself to tell Eve (again "behind the scenes" - i.e. not explicitly stated in Scripture).

Beyond that, Eve gave in to temptation and ate the fruit because she had the free will to choose whether or not she would do so. The Devil is cunning. It had nothing to do with "Adam putting words in God's mouth." How absolutely ridiculous. Let's pretend that you are absolutely correct. (A horrifying thought, I know.) You are saying that Eve sinned because of Adam, NOT because of her God-given free will, and NOT because the Devil is seductive.

In the end, as I stated earlier, we don't know the absolute specifics of WHO told Eve and HOW she was told. And in truth it doesn't matter. Once again, you are focusing on and obsessing over such a minute detail that is so irrelevant to Christianity.