Saints Who Commited Suicide?

[Krush2k2]

I read on another thread that the church actually canonized and made saints of some people who commited suicide. One name
was St.Pelagia. Do you know of any other saints that the church canonized after suicide and how was the act for that particular
saint justified?

[Resurrexi]

Jumping off a building in order to avoid getting raped by Roman soldiers is not the same committing the sin of suicide.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Resurrexi

[StColette]

There are a few Saints named Pelagia. The one I'm most familiar with was martyred during the time of Diocletian. I think she might have been roasted to death. Btw we should also keep in mind that the canonization process that we have today is not the process that existed long ago. Saints during the earlier period were declared such by popular demand. There wasn't a formal canonization process.

[Resurrexi]

I think that the original poster was talking about this St. Pelagia:

Pelagia was a Christian virgin fifteen years of age. Soldiers came in search of her, evidently during the Diocletian persecution, in order to force her to offer publicly a heathen sacrifice. She was alone in the house, no one being there to aid her. She came out to the soldiers sent after her and when she learned the order they had toexecute, she requested permission to go again into the house in order to put on other clothing. This was granted to her. The virgin who probably knew what was before her was not willing to expose herself to the danger of being dishonoured. She therefore went up to the roof of the house and threw herself into the sea. Thus she died, asSt. Chrysostom says, as virgin and martyr, and was honoured as such by the Antiochene Church. St. Ambrose also mentions this Pelagia of Antioch

[StColette]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='06 October 2009 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1254870182' post='1979489']
I think that the original poster was talking about this St. Pelagia:

Pelagia was a Christian virgin fifteen years of age. Soldiers came in search of her, evidently during the Diocletian persecution, in order to force her to offer publicly a heathen sacrifice. She was alone in the house, no one being there to aid her. She came out to the soldiers sent after her and when she learned the order they had toexecute, she requested permission to go again into the house in order to put on other clothing. This was granted to her. The virgin who probably knew what was before her was not willing to expose herself to the danger of being dishonoured. She therefore went up to the roof of the house and threw herself into the sea. Thus she died, asSt. Chrysostom says, as virgin and martyr, and was honoured as such by the Antiochene Church. St. Ambrose also mentions this Pelagia of Antioch
[/quote]

hmm not the version of her biography I'm familiar with.

[CatherineM]

You could make the argument that Samson committed suicide by pulling the temple down on top of himself. King Saul stabbed himself after receiving a mortal wound. Neither of them are canonized though.

St. Nicholas Owen was accused by his jailers of having committed suicide. Saint Callistus had attempted suicide, but was saved.

If you want to know about some of the mortal failings of those who were later canonized, a good book is "Ordinary Suffering of Extraordinary Saints" by Vincent J. O'Malley C.M.

[StColette]

I would say that if she threw herself into the sea, I doubt she meant to commit suicide. It's quite possible to jump into the sea and survive.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='06 October 2009 - 07:03 PM' timestamp='1254870182' post='1979489']
I think that the original poster was talking about this St. Pelagia:

Pelagia was a Christian virgin fifteen years of age. Soldiers came in search of her, evidently during the Diocletian persecution, in order to force her to offer publicly a heathen sacrifice. She was alone in the house, no one being there to aid her. She came out to the soldiers sent after her and when she learned the order they had toexecute, she requested permission to go again into the house in order to put on other clothing. This was granted to her. The virgin who probably knew what was before her was not willing to expose herself to the danger of being dishonoured. She therefore went up to the roof of the house and threw herself into the sea. Thus she died, asSt. Chrysostom says, as virgin and martyr, and was honoured as such by the Antiochene Church. St. Ambrose also mentions this Pelagia of Antioch
[/quote]

There are all sorts of stories of the Saints that are simply untrue. Many are the result of a pious, well-meaning public, others not so much. Some claim that many Saints were gay, for example. Here, we see claims that a Saint committed suicide. So, I would ask you who your source is, and more importantly, who their source is.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='06 October 2009 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1254870861' post='1979496']
There are all sorts of stories of the Saints that are simply untrue. Many are the result of a pious, well-meaning public, others not so much. Some claim that many Saints were gay, for example. Here, we see claims that a Saint committed suicide. So, I would ask you who your source is, and more importantly, who their source is.
[/quote]

Catholic Encyclopedia

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='06 October 2009 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1254869667' post='1979484']
Jumping off a building in order to getting raped by Roman soldiers is not the same committing the sin of suicide.
[/quote]
I think you left out "avoid."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Rexi... but I seem to remember in a discussion on the fate of the people trapped in the World Trade Center on 9/11 that you suggested that those who jumped to avoid being burned or crushed to death were wrong to do so. Was that what you had said? If so, is that still your position?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='06 October 2009 - 06:22 PM' timestamp='1254871341' post='1979501']
I think you left out "avoid." [/quote]

You are right!

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='06 October 2009 - 06:22 PM' timestamp='1254871341' post='1979501']
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Rexi... but I seem to remember in a discussion on the fate of the people trapped in the World Trade Center on 9/11 that you suggested that those who jumped to avoid being burned or crushed to death were wrong to do so. Was that what you had said? If so, is that still your position?
[/quote]

I don't recall saying about that, though I may have.

If I did, it isn't my position now.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Guest Servant of Divine]

A persn once asked "What's the difference between matyrdom and suicide?" Media Coverage.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Servant of Divine' date='06 October 2009 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1254873634' post='1979523']
A persn once asked "What's the difference between matyrdom and suicide?" Media Coverage.
[/quote]

I disagree with Panic! at the Disco.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Innocent]

I once made a post on this topic, but that thread has disappeared from the Phorum now. It's still visible on [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=mozilla&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&num=30&q=Pelagia+And+Domnina%2C+Mentioned+in+the+book+%22Bushido%2C+the+Soul+of+Japan%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.phatmass.com%2F&aq=f&oq=&aqi="]Google Search[/url], but it's not on the Phorum.

The other saint was [url="http://www.antiochian.org/node/16768"]St. Domnia who jumped into a river with her daughters Berenice and Prosdoce[/url] again, to avoid rape by soldiers.

I remember back at that time, it was Aloysius (I think) who replied saying that it was possible that Ss. Pelagia and Domnia had received a private revelation from God permitting them to commit Suicide.

I found this Google Books preview of a book on Asian Christian Martyrs [[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=iF66EjdvDnYC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=pelagia+suicide&source=bl&ots=pyxAcgT0o1&sig=-KkF-lxu2PpqB7huogheDytY4M0&hl=en&ei=MczLSqOIFtPQlAf5o4DZBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=pelagia%20suicide&f=false"]"Let us die that we may live": Greek homilies on Christian martyrs from Asia[/url]] which has a sermon of St. John Chrysostom on St. Pelagia. The complete sermon is not seen in the Google Books preview, but the introduction to the sermon is complete, wherein in the end it is said that according to St. John Chrysostom suicide is "a valid means of martyrdom" for ascetic women but a defeat for male martyrs.

[Krush2k2]

I wonder how the line is drawn for justification. If the church justifies suicide for someone about 2 get raped, then whose 2 say a person who thinks getting abused by a father and commits suicide to get away from that goes to hell? What if to that person getting abused is just as bad as getting raped?