Jump to content
An Old School Catholic Message Board

Imputation Of Righteousness


rkwright

Recommended Posts

HisChildForever

[quote name='Selah' date='07 October 2009 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1254949631' post='1980220']
Will you answer my question?

If works mean nothing, why does Christ judge us by our works?
[/quote]

Hasn't responded to Post #129 either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laudate_Dominum

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='07 October 2009 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1254951202' post='1980237']
Hasn't responded to Post #129 either.
[/quote]
The quote box goes well with your avatar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HisChildForever

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1254949497' post='1980217']
My goodness, would someone give this woman a wake-up pill?
[/quote]

Dealing with you requires more than a pill. I'm thinking shots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HisChildForever

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='07 October 2009 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1254951272' post='1980238']
The quote box goes well with your avatar.
[/quote]

It would bring out my eyes, too, if I weren't wearing my sweet suns. :smokey:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nihil Obstat

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='07 October 2009 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1254951115' post='1980236']
Resurrexi must be laughing his head off because of this comment.
[/quote]
I know I am. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1254949497' post='1980217']
In fact, Dear One, ever since the Reformation, it was probably only Mr. Luther who appeared to be having some trouble with the book of James, but later retracted. Your point?

Moreover, I did not say for one instant that Greg was speaking infallibly. As usual you have read something into my words that were not there! My goodness, would someone give this woman a wake-up pill?

Selah threw a tomatoe in the face of Luther while HE was in his private practice, and since Greg also "pontificated privately" on a similar, though anti-catholic position, he too deserves a tomatoe as well. That was all I was saying.
[/quote]
We have caught you, Dan Quayle. You are exposed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormstopper

[quote name='Selah' date='07 October 2009 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1254949631' post='1980220']
Will you answer my question?

If works mean nothing, why does Christ judge us by our works?
[/quote]


Selah, I guess this is what it means to exhort with all "longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Tim 4). Longsuffering, yep that's me. Briefly,

1) Protestants have never said "works mean nothing", so please remove the accusation from your vocabulary.

2) You have to FIRST look at the big picture of the Bible and not just narrow down your theology to Matt 25 where people are being admitted into heaven because they visited prisoners! The Bible is emphatic that "He saved us NOT according to works of righteousness which we have done." (Eph 2:8:9).

3) I assume you will say you believe Eph 2:8? Fine. Then we agree we are not saved by works of righteousness. Now that was simple.

4) It is confirmed again in Romans 3:28...."Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law". Faith without the deeds of the law leaves nothing but.... faith alone, as the last two popes verified that Luther was not out of order to say. Even Sungenis agrees in "Not By Faith Alone" that the works of the law by which Paul says we CANNOT be justified from, are ANY works--moral, civil or ceremonial (p. 114).

5) So it is resolved: Catholics believe we CANNOT be saved by our works of righteousness---and Protestants believe the very same thing. What then is the problem? At this point I must refer you to my debate with Raphael, but basically, what both parties are resolved on is that, yes we are saved by God's grace. That sounds nice, but when we examine Catholic theology, we discover that what she MEANS by "amazing grace" is that God saves us based on the good deeds that He produces IN us, BY the grace He funnels to us through the sacraments!

6) Now you begin to see one of the main reasons the Reformation started. Instead of grace being the unmerited favor of God wherein He lavishes upon those, by "justifying the ungodly, without works" (Rms 4:5,6), Catholicism confronts us with a very clever and subtle way of twisting the gospel of our salvation into a "grace-produced WORKS salvation". We emphatically deny this.

7) As for Matt 25 where it does indeed appear that those feeding the hungry are going into heaven: We have no issue with this and look foward to it. Jesus first separates the sheep from the goats, so it is a forgone conclusion that the goats are headed for hell. Likewise, it should go without saying that these ALREADY SAVED individuals on the other side are now being given their just reward, but their entry is grounded on the atonement of Christ for which they were immediately classified as sheep BEFORE being let in. The good deeds we have done (even right down to giving a glass of water in Christ's name, as He said) will NOT go unrewarded. But these are the FRUITS of our salvation. Salvation is not a result OF grace-produced good works. Grace-produced good works are a result of SALVATION.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormstopper

[quote name='Selah' date='07 October 2009 - 03:50 PM' timestamp='1254948654' post='1980201']
Like [b]bold[/b], [i]italics[/i], [u]underline[/u], [s]strikethrough[/s]...
[/quote]


If you must know, I have tried using the underline and italics, but everytime I pressed it I lost everything I was writing.....it all just disappeared. Sometimes it worked, but I can't take the chance of losing everything---don't have time for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vincent Vega

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1254929844' post='1979857']
How many hundreds of times I have heard a Catholic say (including my own family and including my own dying father) that "hopefully my good deeds will outweigh my bad ones!" or, to quote dear old Dad, "if there is even one chance in a thousand that the incantation that priest said over me (the last rites) will get me into heaven, then its worth the risk." Sheesh, the madness never ends.
[/quote]
Stormstopper,
In there Bible, there's a part where Moses gets commandments from God. There are ten of them, actually. One of them is "Honor thy Mother and Father."

Man, and I thought Protestants knew the Bible! You can read it online here if you want: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI"]Bible Universe.[/url]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormstopper

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='07 October 2009 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1254949114' post='1980208']
In Post #119, you said: [b]Did I or did I not say on this thread that the Protestant is not trying to DESTROY or eliminate works from faith?!
They never have denied it and never will. Why are you condeming me then? You're condemning me on a theological position you DO NOT UNDERSTAND, so quoting the above is completely pointless.....as if I am adhering to some sort of "la-de-da, all I have to do is believe in Jesus, and now let me see.....what grocery store can I rob today?"[/b]

You just contradicted yourself.
[/quote]

No I didn't. See my reply to Selah.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vincent Vega

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1254936792' post='1979991']
What a pathetic comment. I'm telling you what the Scripture says and you curse me out. Reminds me of when they gnashed their teeth at Stephen before stoning him, and of course this is exactly the type of abuse Christ said we should expect so thank you, I consider it a badge of honor, the apostles "rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name." (Acts 5:41). It certainly is understandable coming from a biblical illiterate catholic such as yourself who refuses to interact with the word of God which Jesus commanded to do, but instead, wistfully leaves his brain at the Vatican doorstep and expects them to do all the work because it would hurt your noodle too much if you even tried.
[/quote]
[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1254940060' post='1980065']
I'm guilty of "pencil-pushing"??? Because I quote your own documents? Spare me. I'll bet you you didn't even know that's what Vatican 2 wrote--as you're obviously spending too much time out in the barn milking cows. Instead of thanking me for opeing your eyes, I get the shaft for telling you the truth. Let's cut to the quick. Show me in Scripture or church antiquity where you can find support for Vatican 2 coming up with this fairy tale that good works may be offered to God for SALVATION. Afterall, they said this "sacred" belief went back to "ancient times". So certainly some early father would have believed it. Prove it.
[/quote]
:secret: [size="1"]Dairy Girl isn't Catholic, you [mod]play nice chitlins - the moderator team[/mod].[/size]
:bye:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormstopper

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='07 October 2009 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1254955069' post='1980303']
Stormstopper,
In there Bible, there's a part where Moses gets commandments from God. There are ten of them, actually. One of them is "Honor thy Mother and Father."

Man, and I thought Protestants knew the Bible! You can read it online here if you want: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI"]Bible Universe.[/url]
[/quote]


You can't be serious.

And I suppose you believed every single word that ever came out of your parents mouth?
Your statement is so ridiculous it merits no comment.

Edited by Stormstopper
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laudate_Dominum

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1254955397' post='1980309']
Your statement is so ridiculous it merits no comment.
[/quote]
How so (i.e., please elaborate)? Just curious. Thanks.

:smokey:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stormstopper

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='07 October 2009 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1254951202' post='1980237']
Hasn't responded to Post #129 either.
[/quote]


Dear Supposedly His Child,

Kindly refrain from putting a time limit on my responses as if I must instantly be subserviant to your every whim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Stormstopper' date='07 October 2009 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1254955899' post='1980318']
Dear Supposedly His Child,

Kindly refrain from putting a time limit on my responses as if I must instantly be subserviant to your every whim.
[/quote]
Ooh, soul attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...