Laudate_Dominum Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 This is how this topic may look to some outsiders: [quote]Catholic monasteries ought to have dungeons so that we can punish the baddies with S&M inspired torture before burning them alive, I mean, if we had had more dungeons and torture chambers we could have stopped the Reformation. Oh, but of course we Catholics won't be burning anyone alive so how dare you suggest; we'll let "the secular authorities" do that dirty work so we can continue to be holy and angelic. What were they being burned alive for again? Oh yeah, going against our monarch the Pope. But it is okay because disagreeing with Catholicism justifies torture and a horrific execution. What? You think there was something unkind about all of this? Well, you just can't understand because of your modern sensibilities, so don't even try to judge, anything you say against it is just ignorant and stupid. haha. hahahaha. ha. How dare you bring up the Pope's apology! I will never accept it! I am not bound to accept it! Just because the Pope admits that torture, oppression and murder are wrong does not mean that I am bound as a Catholic to agree!! JAN HUS DESERVED TO DIE AS DO ALL HERETICS!!! *mouth foaming*[/quote] That's all fine and dandy, but what really happened in Sherwood Forest? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVD1OlqtZvY[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' date='04 October 2009 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1254716572' post='1977949'] you rascal [/quote] Well all he ever says is that they don't contradict eachother but doesn't explain his reasoning! Speaks so much but says so little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' date='04 October 2009 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1254717428' post='1977971'] "Within due limits" means that there are times when a state can correctly limit religious liberty. [/quote] I already addressed this and you chose to ignore it: [i]Because it's (DH) advocating religious liberty within due limits whereas Pius IX is condemning it altogether. Just because they've added "in due limits" at the end doesn't negate the entire document. [/i] Quanta Cura doesn't say that the state can permit religious liberty "within due limits" does it? It says that the idea that states protect freedom of false religions is wrong. One statement condemns the idea that the state must enshrine religious liberty in law at all while the other says that the state must "within due limits". That is not the same teaching. Edited October 5, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 01:38 AM' timestamp='1254721087' post='1978053'] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Rez..... Who cares if JPII was using his "teaching authority" or not! This thread is asking the question of attributing guilt to the Roman Catholic Church and the answer is YES....end of story. One would think I would be thanked for setting the record straight and you guys could go on to another topic, but oh no. Your take is, "let's just see what we can do to separate the popes's statements into different categories so we can all go out of our mind asking the same question over and over again and glory in our own opinions". Sheesh! [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"] [font="Arial"][size="2"][/size][/font] [/quote] What about Servetus? Does the guilt of that rest on Protestants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1254721087' post='1978053'] [font="Arial"][size="2"][b]Rez.....[/b] Who cares if JPII was using his "teaching authority" or not! This thread is asking the question of attributing guilt to the Roman Catholic Church and the answer is YES....end of story. [b]One would think I would be thanked[/b] for setting the record straight and you guys could go on to another topic, but oh no. Your take is, "let's just see what we can do to separate the popes's statements into different categories so we can all go out of our mind asking the same question over and over again and glory in our own opinions". [b] Sheesh![/b] [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"] [font="Arial"][size="2"][/size][/font] Quote: [/size][/font]584 years after Hus' cruel death at the hands of the Council of Constance, Pope John Paul II apologized to the Czech people. Paying tribute to the moral character of Hus, the pope said, "On the eve of the great Jubilee, I feel the need to express a profound regret for the cruel death inflicted on Jan Hus and the consequent wound, the source of conflicts and divisions, which were opened in the spirits and the hearts of the Bohemian people." He called for an end to divisions in the church. [b]Allow me to read your mind in response to that: [/b] "But the pope wasn't acting in his official capacity of the church, but rather in his own moral laxity as a human being, and so we must not look too severely at his character flaws, but instead concentrate on the fact that he was personally picked by Christ like a ripe apple at the peak of freshness, to be the leader of the church He founded."[/size][/font] [/quote] Why are you so bitter? You seem to love SCREAMING out scriptural REFERENCES so what about emulating Christ who was born in a stable. What about taking seriously his words "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth". Anyone with a genuine love of God does not spend his time belittling others. Edited October 5, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormstopper Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='05 October 2009 - 08:50 AM' timestamp='1254750630' post='1978163'] Why are you so bitter? You seem to love SCREAMING out scriptural REFERENCES so what about emulating Christ who was born in a stable. What about taking seriously his words "blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth". Anyone with a genuine love of God does not spend his time belittling others. [/quote] Oropro, I thought you went into hiding after I refuted you in three posts and you didn't respond. Unfortunately, you can't admit what even your own Catholic Church teaches; namely FORGIVENESS OF SINS MAY BE RECEIVED VIA THE MOUTH. Instead of admitting it, you try accusing me of deceit, but that attempt failed miserably. So I'm GRACIOUSLY answering you now because you wrote in asking the question, but no more (unless and UNTIL you can admit that I have read the Catechism correctly in #1393. The words are cyrstal clear and you very well know it). Furthermore, I didn't even mention any "screaming" scripture references in the above post. But when I do, or if I capitalize, it is so you will GO AND CHECK OUT THE FACTS FOR YOURSELF. There is so much erroneous information on this site, my adverse reaction is certainly warranted....that is, if I can provide the evidence. When Winchester for example, so pompously affirmed Christ had not told ANYONE to write even one line in the N.T., what do you think Jesus Christ thought of THAT? I happen to be there and corrected his shameful remark. So he says he has indeed picked up a Bible on occasion after I accused him, but after his now-famous drunken outbursts in the past, I can only assume the only reason he picked up a Bible recently was to place it under his gin and tonic and use it as a coaster. There are no less than 10 places in the the book of Acts alone where you see the apostle Paul DISPUTING with others on the gospel issue, and in one place it says he was "turning the world upside down". Hence, disputing is a God-given VIRTUE where we are to "reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and DOCTRINE." (2 Tim 4:2). When Elijah was in his "debate" with the prophets of Baal, and Mr. B was not responding, he MOCKED his adversries, saying, "well guys, what's taking him so long? Did he go out on a trip? Is he sleeping? Did he go to the bathroom? (1 Kings 18:27). There is a time and a place therefore for "strong remarks" as Jesus Himself did NOT go around with a feather duster and a limp wrist as He went about His business. The whole point is that you are offended that there could be so much evidence against the Roman Catholic Church and her claims for being the "ONE" true church, that when someone comes along giving a reasoned response to the contrary, it blows you away. The Winchester remark, by the way, is something that I have heard for over 25 years ("Christ never told anyone to write anything"). Over and over again, it simply never ends! This is proof positive that Catholics have an uncanny knack for hearing anything coming out of another Catholics mouth and INSTANTLY branding it in their memory without checking it out for themselves, and thus the lie continues ad nauseum forever until someone like me comes along to break the chain of madness. And just like the person who started this thread. If they had known what JPII said in 1999, they would not have even started the thread asking for opinions because the Pope had already answered the question! So what it boils down to is that you are intimidated by me because I happen to know a lot about Catholicism and yet am not Catholic. That should be a good thing though because if I get you to run to the Bible---like I was able to get you to run to the CATECHISM to check me out, then knowledge will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Stormy, Winchester responded to his mistake, and a different argument was presented. Please keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1254758474' post='1978229'] I can only assume the only reason he picked up a Bible recently was to place it under his gin and tonic and use it as a coaster. [/quote]I don't drink gin. Or tonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 :lolcatt: whoops, I mean [img]http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/lolcat-funny-picture-moderator1.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' date='05 October 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1254759780' post='1978242'] I don't drink gin. Or tonic. [/quote] I liked you so much better before I knew this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1254758474' post='1978229'] When Winchester for example, so pompously affirmed Christ had not told ANYONE to write even one line in the N.T., what do you think Jesus Christ thought of THAT? I happen to be there and corrected his shameful remark. [/quote] [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 October 2009 - 12:20 PM' timestamp='1254759633' post='1978241'] Stormy, Winchester responded to his mistake, and a different argument was presented. Please keep up. [/quote] You guys are both far behind. Winchester was actually correct, and I posted an explanation as to why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1254758474' post='1978229'] So he says he has indeed picked up a Bible on occasion after I accused him, but after his now-famous drunken outbursts in the past, I can only assume the only reason he picked up a Bible recently was to place it under his gin and tonic and use it as a coaster. [/quote] I gave you a negative for this. What a disgustingly rude judgment to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1254758474' post='1978229'] Oropro, I thought you went into hiding after I refuted you in three posts and you didn't respond. Unfortunately, you can't admit what even your own Catholic Church teaches; namely FORGIVENESS OF SINS MAY BE RECEIVED VIA THE MOUTH. Instead of admitting it, you try accusing me of deceit, but that attempt failed miserably. So I'm GRACIOUSLY answering you now because you wrote in asking the question, but no more (unless and UNTIL you can admit that I have read the Catechism correctly in #1393. The words are cyrstal clear and you very well know it). [/quote] The Catechism contains no such paragraph. It goes straight from 1392 to 1394. [quote] Furthermore, I didn't even mention any "screaming" scripture references in the above post. But when I do, or if I capitalize, it is so you will GO AND CHECK OUT THE FACTS FOR YOURSELF. [/quote] Which book is that phrase in? I'm running myself ragged, here. [quote] There is so much erroneous information on this site, my adverse reaction is certainly warranted....that is, if I can provide the evidence. When Winchester for example, so pompously affirmed Christ had not told ANYONE to write even one line in the N.T., what do you think Jesus Christ thought of THAT? I happen to be there and corrected his shameful remark. So he says he has indeed picked up a Bible on occasion after I accused him, but after his now-famous drunken outbursts in the past, I can only assume the only reason he picked up a Bible recently was to place it under his gin and tonic and use it as a coaster.[/quote] I did more than that, 95+, but your version certainly make me look more the villain, which is what you're shooting for. And that passage still doesn;t account for the rest of the New Tesatament. Since you believe in Salvation through literacy, you pay more attention to the Bible than one who believes Christ's death saved us. It's completely understandable. But you're done talking (directly) to me, so you obviously won't respond to that. [quote] There are no less than 10 places in the the book of Acts alone where you see the apostle Paul DISPUTING with others on the gospel issue, and in one place it says he was "turning the world upside down". Hence, disputing is a God-given VIRTUE where we are to "reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and DOCTRINE." (2 Tim 4:2). When Elijah was in his "debate" with the prophets of Baal, and Mr. B was not responding, he MOCKED his adversries, saying, "well guys, what's taking him so long? Did he go out on a trip? Is he sleeping? Did he go to the bathroom? (1 Kings 18:27). There is a time and a place therefore for "strong remarks" as Jesus Himself did NOT go around with a feather duster and a limp wrist as He went about His business. The whole point is that you are offended that there could be so much evidence against the Roman Catholic Church and her claims for being the "ONE" true church, that when someone comes along giving a reasoned response to the contrary, it blows you away. The Winchester remark, by the way, is something that I have heard for over 25 years ("Christ never told anyone to write anything"). Over and over again, it simply never ends! This is proof positive that Catholics have an uncanny knack for hearing anything coming out of another Catholics mouth and INSTANTLY branding it in their memory without checking it out for themselves, and thus the lie continues ad nauseum forever until someone like me comes along to break the chain of madness. And just like the person who started this thread. If they had known what JPII said in 1999, they would not have even started the thread asking for opinions because the Pope had already answered the question! So what it boils down to is that you are intimidated by me because I happen to know a lot about Catholicism and yet am not Catholic. That should be a good thing though because if I get you to run to the Bible---like I was able to get you to run to the CATECHISM to check me out, then knowledge will increase. [/quote] So you're on par with an Apostle, graciously deigning to share your fonts with us. Thank you. From the very bottom of my heart, thank you. The quote from JPII speculation is just that--speculation. Since Catholics don't in fact behave any different from anyone else in repeating what they've heard (you've amply demonstrated this), and we are not monolithic, we question. Now, we might not use capslock as much, or the have the affinity for font colors and extra punctuation that you do, but we do question. However, it's easier to lump us all together, so rock on. You freaked out, again. I win. Edited October 5, 2009 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormstopper Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Terra Firma' date='05 October 2009 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1254750270' post='1978159'] What about Servetus? Does the guilt of that rest on Protestants? [/quote] see here... [url="http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?457"]http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?457[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't have the internet, so I can't read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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