Nihil Obstat Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='05 October 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1254760147' post='1978246'] You guys are both far behind. Winchester was actually correct, and I posted an explanation as to why. [/quote] I was trying to be as general as possible, having been in a class at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' date='05 October 2009 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1254761666' post='1978261'] I don't have the internet, so I can't read that. [/quote] I'm fond of your refusal to read links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormstopper Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='05 October 2009 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1254760285' post='1978248'] I gave you a negative for this. What a disgustingly rude judgment to make. [/quote] Dear Chid, You did not disprove ANYTHING I wrote regarding Winchester's flub. Rev 1:11 states that Christ said to John, ''WHAT THOU SEEST, WRITE IN A BOOK." Words could not be clearer. So desperate are you to find fault with me, that even the plain words of the text in front of you don't not have any effect. I can only stand amazed at the hardness of your heart. As for you saying I am not so nice, tell that to a few other people, like John the Baptist, ("ye brood of vipers"), John the apostle, ("liars" and "antichrists") and Paul (not a few times ) used some very strong terminology in HIS disputes. More importantly, Christ calls the scribes and Pharisees some unpleasant names no less than 16 times in Matt 23. They are "hypocrites" (7 times), "son of Hell" (once), "blind guides" (twice), "geniuses and blind" (3 times), "whited sepulchres" (once), "serpents" (once), and "offspring of vipers" (once). Since we agree that Christ was without sin, we may deduce by good and necessary consequence that name-calling or a "mild" assault on someone's character is not a sin either, but is rather, a virtue, when one perceives that the word of God is being mishandled. (P.S. Someone has set this site up to reject the word spelled F.O.O. L. which gets automatically changed to "genius" whenever anybody uses it. Talk about censorship! Anyhow, that word should be replaced with what you see above as I did not put it there). Edited October 5, 2009 by Stormstopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1254762586' post='1978272'] Dear Chid, You did not disprove ANYTHING I wrote regarding Winchester's flub. Rev 1:11 states that Christ said to John, ''WHAT THOU SEEST, WRITE IN A BOOK." Words could not be clearer. So desperate are you to find fault with me, that even the plain words of the text in front of you don't not have any effect. I can only stand amazed at the hardness of your heart. [/quote] And as we know, there is no translation that says "scroll". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Stormstopper' date='05 October 2009 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1254762586' post='1978272'] . (P.S. Someone has set this site up to reject the word spelled F.O.O. L. which gets automatically changed to "genius" whenever anybody uses it. Talk about censorship! [/quote] That's the fiddler. I picked this up for you at Target. It's real nice; I got it on sale. [img]http://lecramsblog.com/uploaded_images/sense_of_humor-762713.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote]For you well know, venerable brethren, that at this time men are found not a few who, applying to civil society the impious and absurd principle of "naturalism," as they call it, [b]dare to teach that "the best constitution of public society and (also) civil progress altogether require that human society be conducted and governed without regard being had to religion any more than if it did not exist; or, at least, without any distinction being made between the true religion and false ones." And, against the doctrine of Scripture, of the Church, and of the Holy Fathers, they do not hesitate to assert that "that is the best condition of civil society, in which no duty is recognized, as attached to the civil power, of restraining by enacted penalties, offenders against the Catholic religion, except so far as public peace may require."[/b] From which totally false idea of social government they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, most fatal in its effects on the Catholic Church and the salvation of souls, called by Our Predecessor, Gregory XVI, an "insanity,"2 viz., that "liberty of conscience and worship is each man's personal right, which ought to be legally proclaimed and asserted in every rightly constituted society; and that a right resides in the citizens to an absolute liberty, which should be restrained by no authority whether ecclesiastical or civil, whereby they may be able openly and publicly to manifest and declare any of their ideas whatever, either by word of mouth, by the press, or in any other way." But, while they rashly affirm this, they do not think and consider that they are preaching "liberty of perdition;"3 and that "if human arguments are always allowed free room for discussion, there will never be wanting men who will dare to resist truth, and to trust in the flowing speech of human wisdom; whereas we know, from the very teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, how carefully Christian faith and wisdom should avoid this most injurious babbling."4 [/quote] Thats the whole quote from Quanta Cura... The bold is what Pius IX was condeming. Liberty of conscience and religious freedom are two different things IMO. Freedom of conscience... even the United States recognizes some sort of universal conscience/natural law. That is why we cannot murder (except for unborn in USA anyways), steal, etc. Pius IX was condemning that religion, specifically the Catholic faith be removed from the state and that no distinction be made between the True Church and the false ones. That doesn't mean you can't follow the false ones, it just means we're going to make sure you know that they're false. The Church continues to teach this. Even recently she repronounced protestants as separated brethren. Separated from what? The True Church. I don't see anything wrong with [b]religion[/b] being a civil right and at the same time rejecting liberty of [b]conscience[/b]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Man I had so many +1's to give out in this thread.. but only get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 BTW rexi, what do you think of my interpretation? I don't think Pius IX and Vatican II are even talking about the same thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='05 October 2009 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1254763781' post='1978285'] BTW rexi, what do you think of my interpretation? I don't think Pius IX and Vatican II are even talking about the same thing... [/quote] So ... you're saying that sometimes looking at the broader context can bring clarity to an apparent discrepancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Every town Has its ups and down Sometime ups Outnumber the downs But not in Nottingham I'm inclined to believe If we were so down We'd up and leave We'd up and fly if we had wings for flyin' Can't you see the tears we're cryin'? Can't there be some happiness for me? Not in Nottingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='05 October 2009 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1254766819' post='1978309'] Every town Has its ups and down Sometime ups Outnumber the downs But not in Nottingham I'm inclined to believe If we were so down We'd up and leave We'd up and fly if we had wings for flyin' Can't you see the tears we're cryin'? Can't there be some happiness for me? Not in Nottingham [/quote] I might have to go home and watch that now! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='05 October 2009 - 12:28 PM' timestamp='1254763700' post='1978283'] Man I had so many +1's to give out in this thread.. but only get one [/quote] I still think you need a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 October 2009 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1254768327' post='1978329'] I still think you need a flag. [/quote] I'm waiting for it... Dust told me I'd have scholar and that was 2 weeks ago or so now. I have a BA in Theology from FUS so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='Terra Firma' date='05 October 2009 - 11:18 AM' timestamp='1254766688' post='1978308'] So ... you're saying that sometimes looking at the broader context can bring clarity to an apparent discrepancy? [/quote] Wait really? That's true? No way! Everything has to be read in the light of 2000 years of tradition... that's what's so cool about Catholicism And what makes it so hard to read Catholic theology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 [quote name='StColette' date='05 October 2009 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1254767788' post='1978324'] I might have to go home and watch that now! lol [/quote] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjLL7jbevqM[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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