Priest Asked Noisy Children To Leave

[zunshynn]

[quote name='rhetoricfemme' date='04 October 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1254695272' post='1977604']
I'm considering writing him a polite letter even though I'm not from there. Couldn't hurt.
[/quote]

I think that would be appropriate... After all, it would be good for him to know if people aren't actually being disturbed by the children, since he made the announcement because he thinks they are.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='04 October 2009 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1254695187' post='1977601']
Don't be a chump. seriously. Adults know better and can control themselves; they know what is disruptive and what is not, and the only good choice for an adult is to be there and NOT be disruptive. A baby can't make that decision because he or she doesn't know any better.
You're intentionally making it seem like the adult has no choice except to be disruptive... (talk about flat footed and stupid...)
[/quote]
Stay classy, Alpha.

Pax

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 October 2009 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1254694708' post='1977594']
What if someone was deep in prayer, only heard the children as "background noise," was following the words of the priest very carefully - and suddenly the priest is no longer saying the Mass. My concentration would be ruined. [/quote]

Yeah, that's basically how it went for me. I was stunned but noticed others also turning to either look who was the, "culprit," or to give sympathetic glances.

[quote]If there is an issue with stubborn parents in the parish community, something tasteful should be put in the bulletin so no one feels singled out. You know, it can start off like this - "If you must bring toys for your children, please refrain from bringing cars and instead bring stuffed animals, soft books, or blankets" - and can end with "If your child becomes startled or upset, we understand that exiting the pews is a necessary action." This way, the parents are not told to just leave, but are gently reminded that this is an option.[/quote]
Sounds good to me!

Edited October 4, 2009 by rhetoricfemme

[Thy Geekdom Come]

rhetoric, was there any place for the parents to take the child outside the Church to?

I know a lot of our Churches here don't have much of a narthex or don't have a cryroom at all or in a few cases there aren't any doors closing off the narthex from the Sanctuary and there's no cryroom. Sometimes the facilities of the Church make it very difficult for a parent to remove their child if they're being terribly disruptive. I know today that it was pouring non stop today in our area and a lot of our Churches don't have anywhere to take children other than outside. I'd rather things be a little noisy than a child and parent be forced to go outside into the pouring rain because that's the only option.


This is Jennie (StColette) not Micah.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='Raphael' date='04 October 2009 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1254698425' post='1977677']
rhetoric, was there any place for the parents to take the child outside the Church to?

I know a lot of our Churches here don't have much of a narthex or don't have a cryroom at all or in a few cases there aren't any doors closing off the narthex from the Sanctuary and there's no cryroom. Sometimes the facilities of the Church make it very difficult for a parent to remove their child if they're being terribly disruptive. I know today that it was pouring non stop today in our area and a lot of our Churches don't have anywhere to take children other than outside. I'd rather things be a little noisy than a child and parent be forced to go outside into the pouring rain because that's the only option.


This is Jennie (StColette) not Micah.
[/quote]
Honestly, I didn't think to look. However, the parents did take their children somewhere, and I didn't hear them, so I'm inclined to think they were in a cryroom and not the lobby.

That'd be awful to send them out in the rain.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J+
[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='04 October 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1254691992' post='1977550']
...and me...
[/quote]
seriously.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='04 October 2009 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1254692182' post='1977554']
The priest was wrong to ask for the removal of the children, but rather than attack him, let us pray that God enlighten him about the importance of children attending divine worship with their parents.

After all . . . Church is not just for adults.
[/quote]
amen.

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='04 October 2009 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1254694087' post='1977579']
So an adult, who has an obligation but is disruptive, should stay and not leave? Because they have the obligation to be there? And therefore it is not rude and uncharitable, as they are fulfilling their obligation?
[/quote]


[quote name='aalpha1989' date='04 October 2009 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1254695187' post='1977601']
Don't be a chump. seriously. Adults know better and can control themselves; they know what is disruptive and what is not, and the only good choice for an adult is to be there and NOT be disruptive. A baby can't make that decision because he or she doesn't know any better.
You're intentionally making it seem like the adult has no choice except to be disruptive... (talk about flat footed and stupid...)
[/quote]
really, adults know better? what about adults who leave their cell phones on? and answer them in the middle of the consecration? what about adults who chew gum throughout Mass? what about adults who carry on a conversation on the way to receive Our Lord? i could go on ad nauseum, but i think you get my point.

[little_miss_late]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='04 October 2009 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1254683695' post='1977437']
While I fully understand that children under the age of reason do not have to attend Mass, I do personally think it's important. For one, if they aren't attending, that means the parents are going to separate Masses, which, IMHO, is not ideal...

... it's not an ideal situation, IMHO, and I can't imagine that being the norm for us for years to come, since we'll have small children, God willing, for years to come.
[/quote]

I am really grateful for the friends and family who have helped me with child care so that I can grow in faith. Talk about an act of charity.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='04 October 2009 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1254694191' post='1977582']
In the six years that I have attended divine liturgy, as strange as it may sound, I have never once seen a child refuse to open his mouth for holy communion. Nevertheless, I trust that a priest (and the child's parents) know what to do should that happen.
[/quote]


tickle him under the armpits until he starts laughing?

Ok... not appropriate right before receiving the Eucharist... but still

[jmjtina]

The original poster was a visitor who made a judgment on a church he does not regularly attend. They weren't even sure if there was a crying room.

I'd say give the priest the benefit of the doubt.

My priest is very strict and orthodox, and he has talked with parents, usually because they don't understand that during consecration, they are to be reverent. There is a crying room, and if the parents don't use it, he will ask them to. First after mass, and then, if he finds it to be extremely irreverent or disruptive, he will ask them to leave to the crying room during Mass. But it doesn't come without warning.

Quite honestly, he allows alot of stuff, because he wants the children to be there and families together during Mass. He is not unjust. However, to the visitor who came to my parish, he would probably find him rude and out of line as well, which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='04 October 2009 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1254692182' post='1977554']
The priest was wrong to ask for the removal of the children, but rather than attack him, let us pray that God enlighten him about the importance of children attending divine worship with their parents.

After all . . . Church is not just for adults.
[/quote]
Amen

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='04 October 2009 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1254693889' post='1977577']
I did not mean to imply earlier that children should not be in church, only that they have no obligation to be and should therefore be removed if they are disruptive. It is rude and uncharitable to keep a crying baby in the church.
[/quote]
If the child is inconsolable, I'll take him out. With an infant I'm less likely to take the child out immediately, as the child is likely to stop crying if I just feed him. With my toddler I've taken him out twice. Once because he tripped on the kneeler and hit his head thus started screaming, so I took him out to the side, where he could still see the altar but wasn't in the sanctuary. As soon as he heard the bells for the Consecration he stopped crying and wanted to go back. The other time was yesterday, when he was getting really hungry, but it was just before the final blessing, so I wasn't going to feed him. He hadn't gotten to eat before Mass because he only woke up 25 minutes before Mass started.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='04 October 2009 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1254694426' post='1977584']
I see crying babies as a part of life.

Sure, take a crying baby out of a movie, or out of a museum, but why in the world would anyone want to take a crying baby out of Church.

If a baby is in real distress (i.e., something is truly wrong), then take him out of the Church, but if the baby is just being a baby I say let him stay.
[/quote]
Very much agreed

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='04 October 2009 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1254694690' post='1977590']
Children making noise during Mass does not annoy me. Parents who let their children continually disrupt other people-that annoys me. There are parents who let their children climb over pews, eat and drink, and run about the church during Mass. Can you imagine that sort of carry-on during the Last Supper? Fair enough, children are children and they're bound to get unsettled at times, but the parents should have enough respect to teach their children the proper etiquitte.
[/quote]

[Th0t]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='04 October 2009 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1254713745' post='1977897']
The original poster was a visitor who made a judgment on a church he does not regularly attend. They weren't even sure if there was a crying room.

I'd say give the priest the benefit of the doubt.

My priest is very strict and orthodox, and he has talked with parents, usually because they don't understand that during consecration, they are to be reverent. There is a crying room, and if the parents don't use it, he will ask them to. First after mass, and then, if he finds it to be extremely irreverent or disruptive, he will ask them to leave to the crying room during Mass. But it doesn't come without warning.

Quite honestly, he allows alot of stuff, because he wants the children to be there and families together during Mass. He is not unjust. However, to the visitor who came to my parish, he would probably find him rude and out of line as well, which couldn't be further from the truth.
[/quote]

This goes the same for me. This is what is happening at my parish. We have a new vicar at my parish and he is one straight out and orthodox priest. Some parents have left our parish for the same reasons and some (who understand what it means to get up and be respectful of others when their children are crying) have done what he has asked. Sometimes kid's are yelling at the top of their lungs and he has to literally stop and tell the parent to please be respectful and take the child outside. Some get offended and some understand. But ugh does it sometimes aggravate me that they see that their child is getting inpatient and annoyed and begins to whine and kick and scream and they just go "shh!" and they see that they don't calm down and they just don't pick them up and walk to the back or outside.

I respect him a lot because it's because of his character (the put you in line if you step out of it type) and that's what my parish needs. We've been behaving freely for too long and now people are angry and upset that he's there. He is from el Salvador and before that we had an American priest who spoke Spanish very well, honestly better than our parochial priest lol but people would complain that there was no Mexican priest or someone who spoke very good Spanish. And now that we have one, they don't want him! oy vey! -__-

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='04 October 2009 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1254713745' post='1977897']
The original poster was a visitor who made a judgment on a church he does not regularly attend. They weren't even sure if there was a crying room.

I'd say give the priest the benefit of the doubt.
[/quote]
Actually, I made no such judgment. Part of original post:
[quote]I was rather surprised when the priest interrupted the prayer to say that he couldn't concentrate on the prayer with the two crying children in the back of the room. On one hand, I was kind of disappointed, because I feel like it's important for children to be present for the Mass. Still, they were quite loud, it did take some effort to concentrate, and I can't imagine how the priest must have felt making that call.[/quote]
One of the reasons I brought this to the phorum is because at this point in my life, I'm of limited experience at Mass and have been to only a few parishes, none of which ever had the priest dismissing noisy children. I was curious to know how others felt about the situation. I did say that I was surprised, yes. Would I have liked the situation to have been handled differently, yes. Either way, I made no judgment on the priest, because, as was also originally stated, I have no idea what it could have been like for him to make that call. I don't presume to know what made him make his decision, only that I felt that it could have been handled differently. Heck, even though I know how I felt about his decision, I can't even be sure how I personally would have responded if I were in his shoes.

Oh, and also, I'm a she, not a he.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='05 October 2009 - 01:52 AM' timestamp='1254703966' post='1977760']
I am really grateful for the friends and family who have helped me with child care so that I can grow in faith. Talk about an act of charity.
[/quote]
That is always nice, and I'm glad you've had that experience. I don't think any of my friends would want to get up early enough to watch my son (I go to 8.00AM Mass).

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='04 October 2009 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1254703344' post='1977751']
+J.M.J+
really, adults know better? what about adults who leave their cell phones on? and answer them in the middle of the consecration? what about adults who chew gum throughout Mass? what about adults who carry on a conversation on the way to receive Our Lord? i could go on ad nauseum, but i think you get my point.
[/quote]

Yes, adults know better. I didn't say that they were never disruptive, only that they shouldn't be and it's ridiculous to imply that they should be treated like pre-rationals (even if they ARE illogical). Adults misbehaving is not the same as kids misbehaving. For the adult, the only choice is to be in Church and to be attentive and not disruptive.

[homeschoolmom]

What I find more annoying than children making noise is adults coughing constantly throughout the whole Mass.