The Rise Of The Sects - Catholic Perspective

[Bruce S]

[quote]In early April [b]Pope John Paul II called a meeting of the world's cardinals to discuss the rise of the ""sects." The Vatican uses the word "sect" to refer to the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that are very close to the "mainline" Protestant denominations as regards many basic Christian doctrines, [/b]as well as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and other groups that diverge considerably from these basic Christian doctrines.

The cardinals had a lot to say about the spectacular growth of the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which, in Latin America in particular, are attracting many Catholics. Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo of Managua, Nicaragua, told the Cardinals that a "Protestant explosion" has seen the number of Protestants in Latin America grow from 4 million in 1967 to 30 million in 1985. Fully 10 percent of Latin Americans are now Protestant. According to reliable estimates, only 15 percent of Latin Americans are active Catholics.

If the growth factors for each country of Latin America are averaged, the Evangelical and Pentecostal percentage of the population there tripled over a period of 25 years. If it triples again in the next 25 years, Evangelicals and Pentecostals will comprise a third of the population by the year 2010. >>> continued: [/quote]

As this relates here is the USA:

[quote]The same trend is visible in the United States. American Catholic leaders have also expressed a great concern about the growth of Evangelical and Pentecostal churches in this country, a growth that often comes through Catholics leaving their churches. Here, statistics are hard to come by. Much anecdotal evidence suggests that many members of Pentecostal and independent charismatic churches are former Catholics. This is especially true of regions with a large Catholic population. One researcher who did an informal survey estimates that 30 percent of the 35 million Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the United States are first- or second-generation former Catholics. [/quote]



[url="http://world.std.com/~pastoral/sectsedu.htm"]http://world.std.com/~pastoral/sectsedu.htm[/url]

Edited April 5, 2004 by Bruce S

[Bruce S]

[quote]Catholic leaders often "blame" Protestants for proselytizing Catholics and commend us for the "richness" of our faith. However, we need to face the embarrassing question of why so many millions of Catholics around the world are finding a reality of Christian life in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that they did not find in their local Catholic church.

The wrong kind of Catholic pride twists confidence in the truth and the treasures of Catholicism into complacency. It blinds us to the impoverished state of many Catholic institutions and many Catholics' lives.
[/quote]

It is EXACTLY this "pride" that I keep on coming face to face with on many sites. PRIDE is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, most think Pride is the greatest of all the sins, I know, for Pride was the one sin that I had to fight against myself and still do, it undermines everything we do.

This article is one that the people here should read, think about, and fully understand.

Saturday, at my men's prayer breakfast, a new fellow showed up. He was a former seminarian, got all the way up to final ordination in the Fransiscan order before leaving. The material that this link address was EXACTLY what he was telling me the reason he left over.

He had a blast with me, there are not too many in our church that are current in Catholic issues, most are former Catholics, but don't pay much attention to Catholic Church issues anymore, this guy does. I think he and I will have some very interesting disucssions in the future..

Bless you gang. Despite appearances, I rather like you all, you are sincere, I know that, and you all love Jesus, I know that too.

We just need to learn from EACH OTHER too, and too much, here, it is a one way street, and that is sad.

[Bruce S]

This is what I'm talking about here, a response to a thread I was on, the poster will remain anymous [from here, of course] but it is indicative of what I'm alluding to:

[quote]The Holy Spirit is moving on evanglizing in the Catholic Church.

Catholics know alot more, the Holy Spirit is moving, Amen!

Long live JPII and Christ's Holy Catholic Church.
[/quote]

Hip Hip Horay!

[quote]Recently we've seen some encouraging signs that such a response to the situation is beginning. As Archbishop Robert Sanchez of Santa Fe, New Mexico said recently in discussing the exodus of Catholics from the Catholic Church as a result of Protestant proselytizing, "Perhaps we should regard this challenging phenomenon not as a threat but rather as a catalyst that has succeeded in capturing our attention and thus turned us away from our indifference and false satisfaction." [/quote]

Once before, in the Great Reformation, millions walked out the Catholic Church door, never to return. Were some doing it for wrong reasons? Yes, of course, I'm not naive. Were some REALLY knowledgeable about the need to REFORM Christianity? Yes, that can't be denied either.

We are seeing the same thing now. Pentecostals are now over 20 million strong in Brazil, most were former Catholics, millions are joining in areas that were nominally Orthodox in Europe. I'm not talking about those non Christians, who are converting, but people walking out the Catholic Church and Orthodox doors, and embracing other "sects."

You can whistle past the graveyard, of course, the Catholic Church is rather good at that, and has a long history of ignoring things until they are FORCED to deal with them [ the sex scandals come to mind immediately here ].

AND I want to point out, EVERY quote above is from a rabidly PRO CATHOLIC site.

Edited April 5, 2004 by Bruce S

[Bruce S]

From another thread:

[quote]I can verify what someone said earlier...indeed 150 000 adults will be entering into full communion with the Catholic Church in the USA alone this Holy Saturday. This despite all the scandals on the news. Show's who's really in charge. (Go to [url="http://zenit.org/english/"]http://zenit.org/english/[/url] for the full report).
[/quote]

Contrast IN to OUT:

[quote]This is especially true of regions with a large Catholic population. One researcher who did an informal survey estimates that 30 percent of the 35 million Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the United States are first- or second-generation former Catholics. [That is 12 MILLION who left]

Hispanic Catholics in particular are leaving the Catholic Church for these Evangelical, Pentecostal, and independent charismatic churches. A 1986 Gallup Poll revealed that in the preceding 10 years 5 million Hispanics joined Evangelical and Pentecostal churches-approximately 30 percent of the 17 million Hispanics in the United States. Of these, [b]64 percent converted to these groups from Catholicism. [/b]
[/quote]

Taking off the blinders, it would seem the outmigration is TEN TIMES the inmigration, excluding birth Catholics, there is a problem. And you need to address it if you are to be honest.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 5 2004, 07:28 AM'] It is EXACTLY this "pride" that I keep on coming face to face with on many sites. PRIDE is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, most think Pride is the greatest of all the sins, I know, for Pride was the one sin that I had to fight against myself and still do, it undermines everything we do. [/quote]
A Christian is to be humble about his sins, not his convictions, to quote Chesterton.

[Bruce S]

[quote]A Christian is to be humble about his sins, not his convictions, to quote Chesterton[/quote]

I stand corrected, thank you.

[MC Just]

Big deal. They are growing, and all with one aim, the destruction of the Catholic Church by converting the faithful to their personal interpretations of their version of the bible. I wondering what ya''l are gonna have to say on judgment day when Christ asks why you tried pulling Catholics away from him.

[Hananiah]

Not all of them seek to proselytize Catholics, just the ones who are smart enough to realize that, by biblical standards, their gosel is a different one from the Catholic Gospel.

Edited April 5, 2004 by Hananiah

[the lumberjack]

our Gospel IS different from that of the Roman Catholic Church. something which I'm thankful for.

and by BIBLICAL standards...we preach the gospel.

[Dave]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 5 2004, 02:10 PM'] our Gospel IS different from that of the Roman Catholic Church. something which I'm thankful for.

and by BIBLICAL standards...we preach the gospel. [/quote]
The Catholic Church teaches nothing but the BIBLICAL Gospel.

[the lumberjack]

PLUS the superexpanded version found in the Catechism, the R.C.I.A, the pope's teachings "ex cathedra"....and every other catholic document I might have forgotten.

[Dave]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 5 2004, 02:22 PM'] PLUS the superexpanded version found in the Catechism, the R.C.I.A, the pope's teachings "ex cathedra"....and every other catholic document I might have forgotten. [/quote]
There's nothing in the catechism and stuff that is against the Bible either.

[Bruce S]

Code: ZE04040203

Date: 2004-04-02

Reform Calls for Holy Bishops, Says John Paul II

Addresses a Group of Visiting U.S. Prelates

VATICAN CITY, APRIL 2, 2004 (Zenit.org).- The necessary reform of the Church in the United States calls above all for the [b]"interior renewal" and "conversion" of bishops, says John Paul II. [/b]

In a meeting today with the pastors of the ecclesiastical provinces of Atlanta and Miami, the Pope indicated the first challenge that the U.S. Catholic community faces, shaken by the scandals attributed to priests, is "the renewal of the episcopal office."

[b]"The history of the Church demonstrates that there can be no effective reform without interior renewal.[/b] This is true not only of individuals, but also of every group and institution in the Church," the Holy Father told the bishops, who were on their five-yearly visit to Rome.

"In the life of every bishop," he continued, "the challenge of interior renewal must involve an integral understanding of his service as 'pastor gregis' (pastor of the flock), entrusted by Christ's will with a specific ministry of pastoral governance in the Church and the responsibility and apostolic power which accompany that ministry."

Therefore, the "apostolic authority" of the bishop "must be seen first and foremost as a religious witness to the risen Lord, to the truth of the Gospel, and to the mystery of salvation present and at work in the Church," the Pope said.

"The renewal of the Church is thus closely linked to the renewal of the episcopal office," he said. "Since the bishop is called in a unique way to be an [b]'alter Christus' (another Christ)[/b], a vicar of Christ in and for his local Church, he must be the first to conform his life to Christ in holiness and constant conversion."

The Holy Father added: "Only by himself putting on the mind of Christ and acquiring [b]a fresh, spiritual way of thinking, [/b]will he [the bishop] be able to carry out effectively his role as a successor of the apostles, the guide of the faith community, and the coordinator of those charisms and missions which the Holy Spirit constantly pours out upon the Church."

>>>>>>>>>

That is Vaticanese for "Hey guys, WAKE UP, or we will be the only ones here soon...light a fire my brothers and get with the program here..."

Two days ago, Vatican News Service

Edited April 5, 2004 by Bruce S

[dairygirl4u2c]

The difference between Catholic and Protestant salvation.

When a protestant sins, she knows that even if she sins, her faith has saved her. The Protestant will repent out of gratitude, while Catholics will repent out of necessity.


Trent Canon 24
[quote]If anyone says that the justice (righteousness) received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of the increase, let him be anathema.[/quote]

Romans 4
[quote]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [b]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [/b]Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [/quote]

Protestants can even know that they are saved.

1 John 5
[quote]For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. [b]Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? [/b]

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.  These things have [b]I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life[/b], and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.  [/quote]

[Bruce S]

[quote]The Catholic Church teaches nothing but the BIBLICAL Gospel. [/quote]

Yeah, right.

Mary bodily assumed into heaven immediately jumps to mind....

You are entitled, as is everyone, to believe this or that, but please dont' make such blanket statements that are so clearly wrong.

The Catholic Church is the "add on" machine, every generation adds on to things of the previous generations, and over time, you have a HUGE ball of string to grapple with.

Of course, AGAIN, that is your right, I respect any denominations desire to tailor Christianity to their own wishes, just be aware that is what has been done all too often.