OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 God knows everything because He is not bound by time or space. We don't know everything however and we have free will not to commit those sins, so we need to choose wisely. Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, but He still wanted Judas to choose salvation. We can't live as if we had no free will - this is God's gift to us, no matter what His own knowledge is. We can't begin to understand the mind of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 [quote name='nunsense' date='02 October 2009 - 07:02 AM' timestamp='1254481374' post='1976149'] God knows everything because He is not bound by time or space. We don't know everything however and we have free will not to commit those sins, so we need to choose wisely. Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, but He still wanted Judas to choose salvation. We can't live as if we had no free will - this is God's gift to us, no matter what His own knowledge is. We can't begin to understand the mind of God. [/quote] Reminds me of one of those "choose your own adventure" books. Why would God hope for our salvation even if He knew, beyond a doubt, where we'll end up in the end? Perhaps extend it: why would he create a child he knows will use hise free will to end up in Hell for all eternity? ps. I'm in Melbourne too. Do you ever worship at St. Pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='02 October 2009 - 07:51 AM' timestamp='1254484316' post='1976157'] Reminds me of one of those "choose your own adventure" books. Why would God hope for our salvation even if He knew, beyond a doubt, where we'll end up in the end? Perhaps extend it: why would he create a child he knows will use hise free will to end up in Hell for all eternity? [/quote] As the above poster said, God knows all our sins right now, from an eternal vantagepoint. Why would you help conceive a child that you know will suffer? You know he will suffer in his life. Do you want him to suffer? You know for a near fact that the sun will rise tomorrow. Is your knowledge of that fact causing the sun to rise? God creates human beings because even if they choose unwisely, is better for humans to exist in hell than to never exist at all. The question, ignored or scorned on the other thread, still stands: is it better to exist or not to exist? ~Sternhauser Edited October 2, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='02 October 2009 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1254484316' post='1976157'] Reminds me of one of those "choose your own adventure" books. Why would God hope for our salvation even if He knew, beyond a doubt, where we'll end up in the end? Perhaps extend it: why would he create a child he knows will use hise free will to end up in Hell for all eternity? ps. I'm in Melbourne too. Do you ever worship at St. Pats? [/quote] Maybe for God we [u]are [/u]one of those adventure books. Can you imagine what it must be like to know absolutely everything that ever happened, is happening, or will happen? No, of course not. That is why we can't ask the question "why?" of God. It is a totally meaningless question to us because even if He answered it, we wouldn't be able to understand the answer since we are bound by both time and space and have limited intelligence. What we do know about God is that He is the noun that gives rise to all of the positive adjectives! When we think of good, God is the Goodness that makes "good" possible. When we think of beautiful, God is the Beauty. and so on... But because we are selfish and (as Jesus calls us) "evil", we simply cannot begin to comprehend a being who is pure good and pure love. He is light, in Him there is no darkness. How can we, who are so hopelessly flawed and imperfect, possibly begin to comprehend the perfection that He is? Rather than spend our time wondering why God is doing what He is doing, we would be better employed spending our time thanking Him for His kindness and generosity and asking him to help keep us close to Him and safe from all evil that might lead to our damnation. That way, we are choosing salvation, and we don't have to spend fruitless hours wondering if we are "predestined" for hell. See? One of our freewill choices is what we spend our time thinking about! Yes, I have been to St Pat's but getting to St Francis' is easier from where I am. I also like St Augustine's but St Francis' has Mass so many times during the day and Exposition, so it is just nice to pop in there and spend time with Our Lord and then stay for Mass and then Evening Prayer with the Blessed Sacrament fathers. Do you have a favorite parish church? I haven't really liked the suburban ones I have been to - a lot of illicit improvisations during the liturgy that drive me crazy. I am a conservative Catholic in a liberal country! I have been told that our Archbishop is conservative though - so that makes me happy! Haven't met him yet - but hope to soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I love St. Francis' on Lonsdale. I am there a lot. It's not far from my school (like a ten minute walk) so I usually go after class and visit Our Lord or attend Mass if it's on. How amazingly beautiful is the Lady Chapel?! I also love that they always have confession going and the Mass, while not exactly solemn, is atleast free of liturgical improvisation. Have you been to Sunday Mass there? What's it like? I've only been there on weekdays. Yeah, the suburban parishes are absolutely horrid. I once asked my suburban parish priest if there was a EF Mass in the Deanery and he went on a little tangent about how the Latin Mass is all "kneeling and adoration with little women mumbling their rosaries." However if you're near Burwood (Deakin University is there) the Missionaries of God's Love run a good parish called St. Benedicts which has perpetual adoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 God has perfect foreknowledge, for - as St. Gregory Palamas states - if He did not possess this energy He would not be God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='03 October 2009 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1254487537' post='1976166'] ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I love St. Francis' on Lonsdale. I am there a lot. It's not far from my school (like a ten minute walk) so I usually go after class and visit Our Lord or attend Mass if it's on. How amazingly beautiful is the Lady Chapel?! I also love that they always have confession going and the Mass, while not exactly solemn, is atleast free of liturgical improvisation. Have you been to Sunday Mass there? What's it like? I've only been there on weekdays. Yeah, the suburban parishes are absolutely horrid. I once asked my suburban parish priest if there was a EF Mass in the Deanery and he went on a little tangent about how the Latin Mass is all "kneeling and adoration with little women mumbling their rosaries." However if you're near Burwood (Deakin University is there) the Missionaries of God's Love run a good parish called St. Benedicts which has perpetual adoration. [/quote] Yes, St Francis is the best of a bad lot, and having confession all day is wonderful - that's where I went last week for Reconciliation. I have read about EF Masses in Melbourne but haven't made it to one yet. I am not near Burwood, although I know Deakin well, I am an alumni! I am on public transport, so I try to stay around my area on Sundays when there are fewer trams and trains, but I am going to keep looking farther afield until I find a Mass that is at least licit! I can't tell you what agonies I have been going through - I even hold my breath during the consecration and just pray that the priest says it validly! I wouldn't be surprised if he added all sorts of things even to that! Once the consecration is over I can relax and know that I will be receiving Our Lord - and that is what really matters! The priest can't wreck that or the readings and the gospel really - so I am grateful to God for small mercies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' date='02 October 2009 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1254488151' post='1976175'] Yes, St Francis is the best of a bad lot, and having confession all day is wonderful - that's where I went last week for Reconciliation. I have read about EF Masses in Melbourne but haven't made it to one yet. I am not near Burwood, although I know Deakin well, I am an alumni! I am on public transport, so I try to stay around my area on Sundays when there are fewer trams and trains, but I am going to keep looking farther afield until I find a Mass that is at least licit! I can't tell you what agonies I have been going through - I even hold my breath during the consecration and just pray that the priest says it validly! I wouldn't be surprised if he added all sorts of things even to that! Once the consecration is over I can relax and know that I will be receiving Our Lord - and that is what really matters! The priest can't wreck that or the readings and the gospel really - so I am grateful to God for small mercies. [/quote] I don't know how far you are from the city but if you catch a city loop train from your local station and get off at Parliament it's only a short walk (five minutes) to St. Patrick's Cathedral. The main Sunday Mass is complete with gregorian chant and incense. Also I see on your blog you visited a Carmelite convent at Kew. WELL, my friend, the FSSP offers the Latin Mass every Sunday at Xavier College in Kew and they also have share pastoral care (with the diocesan priest) of a parish in Caulfield (St. Aloysius) where they have Mass every day. OH and also there is a Capuchin Monastery in Hawthorn, it's the national shrine to St. Anthony. That's pretty good too apparently and one of the young priests is learning how to say the EF Mass. I hope those suggestions help Edited October 2, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='03 October 2009 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1254489250' post='1976181'] I don't know how far you are from the city but if you catch a city loop train from your local station and get off at Parliament it's only a short walk (five minutes) to St. Patrick's Cathedral. The main Sunday Mass is complete with gregorian chant and incense. Also I see on your blog you visited a Carmelite convent at Kew. WELL, my friend, the FSSP offers the Latin Mass every Sunday at Xavier College in Kew and they also have share pastoral care (with the diocesan priest) of a parish in Caulfield (St. Aloysius) where they have Mass every day. OH and also there is a Capuchin Monastery in Hawthorn, it's the national shrine to St. Anthony. That's pretty good too apparently and one of the young priests is learning how to say the EF Mass. I hope those suggestions help [/quote] Thanks - Cappie mentioned the Capuchins too. I don't like to travel too far on Sundays because of transport -- the Kew Mass was during the week adn that's when I experiment with different churches. I am in St Kilda so hang around this area on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Woah, St. Kilda is like my second home. My sister lives there. I know that there is a very, very traditional Anglo-Catholic church in St. Kilda but not sure about any Catholic parish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Maybe you should check out this parish during the week. It's run by Opus Dei so very conservative: http://www.stmaryswestmelbourne.org/ Very stunning building and very close to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='03 October 2009 - 02:55 AM' timestamp='1254495350' post='1976209'] Woah, St. Kilda is like my second home. My sister lives there. I know that there is a very, very traditional Anglo-Catholic church in St. Kilda but not sure about any Catholic parish [/quote] I feel bad about hijacking this thread so I replied in a PM to you - thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Just think how much more painful to God our sins are because he knows that we will commit them, and can't allow himself to prevent us from failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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