Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' date='01 October 2009 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1254412920' post='1975582'] While Mitochondrial DNA does go back to one mother and dna on the y chromosome goes back to a single father, these two individuals are divided by quite a huge time gap. I do not deny that we did not originate from just two ancestors, but I take it to mean that the first two humans were ensouled with human souls and after the fall began to procreate with nearly identical primates whom were not ensouled as such. Perhaps still a disgusting view, but one that would at least make more sense in light of modern biology and one that doesn't resort to Incest. [/quote] I am pretty sure that would not be consistent with the Church's teachings (cf. Pius XII, [i]Humani Generis[/i], 37). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1254430058' post='1975804'] I am pretty sure that would not be consistent with the Church's teachings (cf. Pius XII, [i]Humani Generis[/i], 37). [/quote] Just FYI... but cf. means the authority your citing is contrasting to your statement. Like... The sky is blue (cf. essay that the sky is red). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) That isn't how Vatican documents use it... "In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. Rv 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16;16:14-15)." Edited October 1, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1254430833' post='1975812'] That isn't how Vatican documents use it... "In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church (cf. Rv 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16;16:14-15)." [/quote] I take it that this entire paragraph is refuting an earlier paragraph? So like Para 1 says x and then the para you provided is a refutation of it? cf. means a contrasting view. nevermind its not worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' date='01 October 2009 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1254431179' post='1975814'] I take it that this entire paragraph is refuting an earlier paragraph? So like Para 1 says x and then the para you provided is a refutation of it? cf. means a contrasting view. nevermind its not worth it... [/quote] In Vatican documents, when a direct quote is referenced, the source will be given in parenthesis. "And the Word was God." (John 1:1). If a source is that is not quoted is being referenced, the source will be given in parentheses preceded by [i]cf.[/i]. The Bible says that Jesus is God (cf. John 1:1). At least that is how I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Why not create a thread on how to use "cf." properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' date='01 October 2009 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1254431179' post='1975814'] I take it that this entire paragraph is refuting an earlier paragraph? So like Para 1 says x and then the para you provided is a refutation of it? cf. means a contrasting view. nevermind its not worth it... [/quote] Rk is right. It comes from the latin [i]confer[/i]. It is used to compare with a conflicting view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='01 October 2009 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1254433828' post='1975835'] Rk is right. It comes from the latin [i]confer[/i]. It is used to compare with a conflicting view. [/quote] Dude, take it up with the Vatican. Vatican documents it when referencing the Bible. I'd hope the Pope doesn't think what he's saying in his encyclical conflicts with the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1254433956' post='1975837'] Dude, take it up with the Vatican. Vatican documents it when referencing the Bible. I'd hope the Pope doesn't think what he's saying in his encyclical conflicts with the Bible. [/quote] He's right, Caritas in Veritate does that. [quote]INTRODUCTION 1. Charity in truth, to which Jesus Christ bore witness by his earthly life and especially by his death and resurrection, is the principal driving force behind the authentic development of every person and of all humanity. Love — caritas — is an extraordinary force which leads people to opt for courageous and generous engagement in the field of justice and peace. It is a force that has its origin in God, Eternal Love and Absolute Truth. Each person finds his good by adherence to God's plan for him, in order to realize it fully: in this plan, he finds his truth, and through adherence to this truth he becomes free (cf. Jn 8:32). To defend the truth, to articulate it with humility and conviction, and to bear witness to it in life are therefore exacting and indispensable forms of charity. Charity, in fact, “rejoices in the truth” (1 Cor 13:6). All people feel the interior impulse to love authentically: love and truth never abandon them completely, because these are the vocation planted by God in the heart and mind of every human person. The search for love and truth is purified and liberated by Jesus Christ from the impoverishment that our humanity brings to it, and he reveals to us in all its fullness the initiative of love and the plan for true life that God has prepared for us. In Christ, charity in truth becomes the Face of his Person, a vocation for us to love our brothers and sisters in the truth of his plan. Indeed, he himself is the Truth (cf. Jn 14:6).[/quote] However it definitely seems to be technically incorrect. [quote]One final point: very many people who should know better use the Latin abbreviation cf., which properly means `compare', merely to refer to published work. It is now very common to see something like this: *The Australian language Dyirbal has a remarkable gender system; cf. Dixon (1972). This is quite wrong, since the writer is not inviting the reader to compare Dixon's work with anything, but only to consult that work for more information. Hence the correct form is this: The Australian language Dyirbal has a remarkable gender system; see Dixon (1972). This widespread blunder is a signal reminder of the danger of using Latin abbreviations when you don't know what they mean. Far too many writers fall into this trap, and write i.e. when they mean e.g., or something equally awful. If you must use a Latin abbreviation, make sure you're using the right one. In most circumstances, though, you are best advised to avoid these abbreviations: almost every one of them has a simple English equivalent which should usually be preferred.[/quote] [url="http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node28.html"]Link here.[/url] Could it be a copying mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 October 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1254434426' post='1975845'] He's right, Caritas in Veritate does that. However it definitely seems to be technically incorrect. [url="http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node28.html"]Link here.[/url] Could it be a copying mistake? [/quote] [i]Deus caritas est[/i] does it too. [quote]Jesus united into a single precept this commandment of love for God and the commandment of love for neighbour found in the Book of Leviticus: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself” (19:18; cf. Mk 12:29-31). Since God has first loved us (cf. 1 Jn 4:10), love is now no longer a mere “command”; it is the response to the gift of love with which God draws near to us."[/quote] So does the Catechism of the Catholic Church. [quote]2167 God calls each one by name (cf. Isa 43:1).[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Uh oh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I doubt it is wrong. It seems like every Vatican document from the past twenty years does it. That is exactly why I do it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1254434862' post='1975852'] I doubt it is wrong. It seems like every Vatican document from the past twenty years does it. That is exactly why I do it as well. [/quote] Maybe Latin words mean different things in Italian. Ooh, let's look at the Latin version. [quote]PROOEMIUM 1. Caritas in veritate, quam sua terrestri vita ac potissimum suam per mortem et resurrectionem testificatus est Iesus Christus, praecipua est vis, quae verum in omnibus humanis personis universaque humanitate producit progressum. Amor – « caritas » – magna est vis quae personas impellit ut animose studioseque in iustitiae ac pacis provincia agant. Est quidem vis, quae a Deo principium sumit, Amore sane aeterno absolutaque Veritate. Unusquisque suum bonum reperit, Dei de se accipiens consilium, ut in plenitudine perficiatur: hoc in consilio suam veritatem is invenit atque huic veritati adhaerens fit liber (cfr Io 8, 32). Cum quis veritatem tuetur eandemque humiliter certeque in vita testatur, caritatis rationes impellentes praebet, quae substitui non possunt. Ipsa « congaudet autem veritati » (1 Cor 13, 6). Homines universi ad vere amandum ex animo impelluntur: amor perinde ac veritas eos numquam plane deserunt, quandoquidem vocationem prae se ferunt, quam Deus in cuiusque hominis corde menteque posuit. Mundat Iesus Christus et a nostris paupertatibus humanis amorem et veritatem conquirendam abducit atque in plenitudine amoris voluntatem vitaeque verae propositum ostendit, quod pro nobis comparavit Deus. In Christo caritas in veritate Vultus fit eius Personae, vocatio fit nobis ad nostros fratres in veritate eius propositi diligendos. Etenim Ipse Veritas est (cfr Io 14, 6).[/quote] It appears that they use the same tag... cfr. instead of cf., but that's not particularly surprising. Well what the heck...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 October 2009 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1254435275' post='1975858'] Maybe Latin words mean different things in Italian. Ooh, let's look at the Latin version. It appears that they use the same tag... cfr. instead of cf., but that's not particularly surprising. Well what the heck...? [/quote] I'm pretty sure the Vatican knows what it's doing when it comes to formatting documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1254435379' post='1975859'] I'm pretty sure the Vatican knows what it's doing when it comes to formatting documents. [/quote] I'm inclined to agree. This is strange though. Maybe this is a more obscure usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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