Don't Act As If Medjugorje Visions Happened:

[mommas_boy]

I have been to Medjugorje. Before I begin, please allow me to qualify my statement by saying that I'm not certain what the best, least-heretical, way is to say this:

While I personally believe in the authenticity of the visions of Medjugorje, I also believe that Bishop Peric is right to say, "Don't Act as if the Medjugorje Visions Happened". When I was concerned before about my possible heresy, I was expressing my angst with describing my current position: believing personally, but not "acting as if they have happened", for the sake of obedience to the Church in whatever Her final decision is.

So, my question is this: how are we to act? What is allowable in this case, where we are waiting for these visions to stop, and for the Church to pronounce judgment?

(Please note: I do not want to get into an argument over whether or not Medjugorje is authentic. Indeed, that's not our position anyway. I chose the word "visions" to describe the events as an attempt to remove my bias by calling them "apparitions". My logic is that people are seeing/experiencing something, whether or not it is an apparition of Our Lady. My own logic in attending the pilgrimage was that worst-case scenario, I go and get closer to Christ and Our Lady. To this end, I "saw" or "experienced" something -- that part is objective. Whether or not the visionaries of Medjugorje are truly experiencing apparitions is the question left to the Church.)

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='30 September 2009 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1254357690' post='1975236']
So, my question is this: how are we to act? What is allowable in this case, where we are waiting for these visions to stop, and for the Church to pronounce judgment?
[/quote]

Well, for starters, the Bishop was talking to people in Medjugorje - just like the recent list of commands by the Bishop was to those at the pilgrimage site... I think extra prudence there - the source of the controversy - is warranted. No commands, to my knowledge, were issued to the worldwide community of Catholics, though I think we similarly should act as a prudent Catholic would at this point, i.e. not passing them off as if they're definitely true, even if that's what one believes deep in his/her heart, and probably not planning pilgrimages. I don't think discussion, however, has been condemned.

Edited October 1, 2009 by lilac_angel

[Sojourner]

[quote name='lilac_angel' date='30 September 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1254361252' post='1975309']
Well, for starters, the Bishop was talking to people in Medjugorje - just like the recent list of commands by the Bishop was to those at the pilgrimage site... I think extra prudence there - the source of the controversy - is warranted. No commands, to my knowledge, were issued to the worldwide community of Catholics, though I think we similarly should act as a prudent Catholic would at this point, i.e. not passing them off as if they're true and probably not planning pilgrimages. I don't think discussion, however, has been condemned.
[/quote]
I agree. From the article, it appears the bishop is telling people in this particular parish not to give more credence to the situation than the Church herself has. That seems prudent, in my view.

I think this is a good viewpoint for all to hold. If this, as a personal devotion, benefits you and brings you to a clearer and truer understanding of faith, great. It should not be the foundation of an individual's faith, but like other personal devotions can be a support to it. In my view, we should also be cautious of how we talk about it to others, lest we promote something that in the end result is inauthentic.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='30 September 2009 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1254355175' post='1975196']
The Church will not rule on the veracity of any apparition until the apparitions stop. However when the Church finds an apparition to be false, she can (and has) rule on it immediately. The fact that the Church has investigated and has not ruled yet infers that its possible.
[/quote]

Technically true however the fact that the people who claim the Blessed Virgin is appearing have not cooperated with the Church speaks volumes.

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='30 September 2009 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1254357690' post='1975236']

So, my question is this: how are we to act? What is allowable in this case, where we are waiting for these visions to stop, and for the Church to pronounce judgment?...[/quote]

Listen to the bishop and don't give credence to the apparitions until the Church says so.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='Slappo' date='30 September 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1254352979' post='1975169']
No prayers etc concerning an apparition that has not been approved are to be public (I.E no mass for a feast of Our Lady of Medjugorie, no prayers during the liturgy/before the liturgy/after the liturgy to Our Lady of Medjugorie, nothing publicized in church bulletins about Our Lady of Medjugorie etc). It is not to be promoted by the Church until the apparitions are approved.
[/quote]

I have a question pertaining to the promotion of Medjugorje. There is a Church that I attend sometimes where I discovered they were promoting devotion to the apparitions in spite of the fact they were not approved. Who would I go to to voice my concerns? The Bishop? Or the parish pastor? I was very surprised to see it in their bulletin (which, unfortunately, I did not keep, but if I see it again, I want to know who to contact).


On another note, there is a lady that I was acquainted with in the same Church who felt the apparitions were real and tried to promote a book about it. I kept telling her I was very skeptical about it all, and didn't want to have anything to do with it until the visions were approved (if they ever are). Then, she told me about the supposed apparition in Birmingham, AL and wanted me to go with her during the month when Our Lady was supposedly going to appear. I turned the invitation down. The woman is VERY devoted to Mary (she even belongs to the Legion of Mary), but I think that something needs to be said about those who will believe anything. It becomes an obsession, and you don't know the line between good and bad. I hope, for her sake, that they will be approved, but we will have to see. For now, I prefer to keep my distance.

Edited October 1, 2009 by InHisLove726

[jeffpugh]

I met a woman really devoted to Mary who mentioned there are supposedly apparitions that frequent a farm in a town about 3 hours or so from Toronto. The farm owners went to Mej and were inspired to dedicate to turning a portion into their land to Stations of the Cross and an area for people to meditate. Some people like to sensationalise things. Anyways, the woman wanted me to try and round up youth to take them to a supposed "apparition" that was supposed to happen on the celebration of the Nativity of Mary. I never went. Sometimes it can be scary and imposing.

[Slappo]

[quote name='StColette' date='30 September 2009 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1254355204' post='1975198']
The apparitions aren't condemned. If they were condemned then not even private devotion would be allowed to continue.
[/quote]


err

I meant uncondemned... thanks lol... really bad typo there.


Private devotion can continue as long as the apparitions remain [b]UN[/b]condemned


Because of the nature of the error in that post, if a moderator could please edit that I'd be much obliged as I don't think I can anymore. As of right now it teaches heresy.

[jiyoung]

[quote name='Slappo' date='01 October 2009 - 02:11 AM' timestamp='1254373866' post='1975459']
As of right now it teaches heresy.
[/quote]

Marcus, you're a heretic! I knew it!

...hehe

Edited October 1, 2009 by jiyoung

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='jiyoung' date='01 October 2009 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1254375414' post='1975469']
Marcus, you're a heretic! I knew it!

...hehe
[/quote]

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='30 September 2009 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1254354296' post='1975189']
There have been many devotedly religious people who have stood outside of a building in Clearwater, Florida that appeared to have a picture of Our Lady in the windows. Their presence doesn't make that visitation legitimate in the eyes of the Church. We need to let the Vatican make these decisions, and ascent to them.
[/quote]

incidentally, I and my family went there years ago while visiting in FL

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='lilac_angel' date='30 September 2009 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1254355190' post='1975197']
Does the length of an apparition have some kind of relation to its validity or the Church's teachings?
[/quote]

I dont' think so...I just assume that if the messages of Medjugorje are so important and need to be taken seriously, Our Lady would do what she needs to make sure it gets approved in a fairly short amount of time (as in Lourdes and Fatima...)

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='01 October 2009 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1254371210' post='1975434']
I met a woman really devoted to Mary who mentioned there are supposedly apparitions that frequent a farm in a town about 3 hours or so from Toronto. The farm owners went to Mej and were inspired to dedicate to turning a portion into their land to Stations of the Cross and an area for people to meditate. Some people like to sensationalise things. Anyways, the woman wanted me to try and round up youth to take them to a supposed "apparition" that was supposed to happen on the celebration of the Nativity of Mary. I never went. Sometimes it can be scary and imposing.
[/quote]

we have to remember that satan loves to divide and conquer. I know a group of religious here in my vicinity, that hold fast to private revelations and believe in them as if they were Gospel truth. When I spoke up at their retreat about how we need to be more cautious with Medjugorje, "Poem of the Man-God" and other private revelations, they treated me as anathema. This group has a cult following here that is really quite scary...

Many times, when I have repeated the Church's stance on Medjugorge, I wind up being scoffed at. Some people have even told me, I'm hurting Blessed Mother and insulting her, because I don't fully believe that the apparitions are really happening...

There is ample opportunity here for the devoted followers of Medjugorje to break away from the Church if the Church ever happens to judge the visions "not worthy of belief." There will certainly be division. We all must be cautious and listen to Holy Mother Church's discretion about these kinds of things...

[StColette]

[quote name='Slappo' date='01 October 2009 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1254373866' post='1975459']
err

I meant uncondemned... thanks lol... really bad typo there.


Private devotion can continue as long as the apparitions remain [b]UN[/b]condemned


Because of the nature of the error in that post, if a moderator could please edit that I'd be much obliged as I don't think I can anymore. As of right now it teaches heresy.
[/quote]

lol I figured it was a typo.

[Guest dansam]

M. Corvaglia is a scholar whose studies about Medjugorje are recommended by bishop Peric himself.
This is his [b][url="http://marcocorvaglia.blog.lastampa.it/"][b]website[/b][/url][/b]

[thessalonian]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='30 September 2009 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1254354296' post='1975189']
There have been many devotedly religious people who have stood outside of a building in Clearwater, Florida that appeared to have a picture of Our Lady in the windows. Their presence doesn't make that visitation legitimate in the eyes of the Church. We need to let the Vatican make these decisions, and ascent to them.
[/quote]

We do not have to wait until the vatican approves to honor our Holy Mother with prayers at a location. Even if the picture of our lady in the window is some natural phenomena or just the imagination of those who view it, that does not mean that their prayers cannot be from the heart to the Blessed Mother. The same is true of the "apparitions" at Medjugoire. I've met one of the visionaries and been present when he has had his alleged vision and heard him speak. I've not been to Medjugorie and don't think I need to though I would like to. I tend to believe that the visions have occurred but defer to the Bishop to make decisions for his diocese in which these things are allegedly taking place. I know of people who have gone there whom I trust and have had their rosaries turned gold as well. I've seen the rosaries. Now does this even prove the apparitions true? No. It is not proof. Further, the Vatican has not spoken one way or another on the apparitions and so I the Bishop reporting some position as if it favors his view, of the Vatican's is a bit misleading. But again it is up to him to guide his flock in his diocese. He does not have jurasdiction in Minneapolis St. Paul and my bishop has not forbid pilgrimages to these places. If one day it is proven to be all a hoax or the Vatican comes out against it, life will go on just fine for me in my Catholic faith. I do not need apparations any more than I would need to see Paul's hankerchief and touch it. (acts 19). But these things are an aid to my faith and focusing my prayers.