Don't Act As If Medjugorje Visions Happened:

[cappie]

Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno told youth and parishioners at a confirmation Mass he presided at in Medjugorje not to behave as if the alleged Marian apparitions reported in the parish were real, the Catholic News Service reports.

The bishop posted an Italian translation of his June homily on his diocesan website in late September, along with letters to the Franciscan pastor of the Medjugorje parish and to another priest serving there, the agency reported.

Bishop Peric said top officials at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Vatican Secretariat of State confirmed that the Catholic Church has never recognised the alleged apparitions as authentic.

"Brothers and sisters, let us not act as if these 'apparitions' were recognised and worthy of faith," the bishop said in the homily.

"If, as Catholics, devoted sons and daughters of the Church, we want to live according to the norms and the teaching of the Church, glorifying the Holy Trinity, venerating Blessed Mary ... and professing all the Church has established in the creed, we do not turn to certain alternative 'apparitions' or 'messages' to which the Church has not attributed any supernatural character," Bishop Peric said.

The bishop praised parish priest Franciscan Father Petar Vlasicfor the way he was handling what he called "the Medjugorje phenomenon," which began in 1981 when six young people, Mirjana Dragicevic, Marija Pavlovic, Vicka Ivankovic, Ivan Dragicevic, Ivanka Ivankovic and Jakov Colo, said they had seen Mary on a hillside near their town. Several of them say they continue to see Mary and receive messages from her.

He asked Father Vlasic to remove from the parish website all references to the parish and its church buildings as a shrine or sanctuary and to ban prayers allegedly dictated by Mary or suggested by her alleged messages from liturgies and prayer services inside the church, including public recitations of the rosary.

He also told Franciscan Father Danko Perutina, one of the parochial vicars, to stop writing commentaries on messages Pavlovic claims to receive on the 25th of each month.

[url="http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904306.htm"]http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904306.htm[/url]

[lilac_angel]

St. Faustina's diary was banned for a half a century before it was accepted in the Church. Padre Pio was banned from saying Masses for 2 decades. Lourdes and Fatima's visionaries were maligned in their day, and called all sorts of names, and there were many reports of demonic activity at Lourdes after the apparitions. Just putting that out there.

Edited September 30, 2009 by lilac_angel

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

I myself am very skeptical of the suppossed apparitions.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='30 September 2009 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1254352321' post='1975162']
I myself am very skeptical of the suppossed apparitions.
[/quote]

I'm neutral, but I am happy about all of the positive fruits that have come from the place. I talked to a guy the other day who went there; his rosary turned to gold. Many devout religious have made pilgrimages there.

[Slappo]

[quote name='lilac_angel' date='30 September 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1254352275' post='1975161']
St. Faustina's diary was banned for a half a century before it was accepted in the Church. Padre Pio was banned from saying Masses for 2 decades. Lourdes and Fatima's visionaries were maligned in their day, and called all sorts of names, and there were many reports of demonic activity at Lourdes after the apparitions. Just putting that out there.
[/quote]

Regardless of whether or not the apparitions at Medjugorie will one day be approved, the actions of the bishop are done according to the teachings of the Universal Church.

No prayers etc concerning an apparition that has not been approved are to be public (I.E no mass for a feast of Our Lady of Medjugorie, no prayers during the liturgy/before the liturgy/after the liturgy to Our Lady of Medjugorie, nothing publicized in church bulletins about Our Lady of Medjugorie etc). It is not to be promoted by the Church until the apparitions are approved.

It is permitted however for private devotion to continue while the apparitions remain uncondemned.


Due to the circumstances of Medjugorie, I think it is far for the bishop to disallow public rosaries in the church, but according to the discernment of the bishop, it is a step that he felt was necessary and I have to support him in that. In a sense, Medjugorie has gotten out of hand. I mean that in so far as it is assumed by many that Medjugorie is true. While that may be the case, that Medjugorie is indeed true, it should not be assumed so until the Church declares it.



As for the bishops actions: Lex Orandi Lex Credendi. The law of prayer is the law of belief. If we are publicly praying to Our Lady of Medjugorie, it means we publicly (public being the Universal Church) believe it. Since that is not yet the case, it must be stopped until further inquiries are made.

[Slappo]

[quote name='lilac_angel' date='30 September 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1254352275' post='1975161']
St. Faustina's diary was banned for a half a century before it was accepted in the Church. Padre Pio was banned from saying Masses for 2 decades. Lourdes and Fatima's visionaries were maligned in their day, and called all sorts of names, and there were many reports of demonic activity at Lourdes after the apparitions. Just putting that out there.
[/quote]


I would also add that while St. Pio was banned from saying the mass for two decades, he remained obedient. That is one of the fruits of sanctity, obedience to the Church, and in his case and this case, the local ordinary.

So even if Medjugorie is true, the best way for it to be seen as true is for devotion to be kept within the realm of obedience to the local ordinary.

[dominicansoul]

I've always said this, that Our Lady herself conforms to the teachings of Our Holy Mother Church. She knows exactly what needs to be done in order for these apparitions to be proclaimed true. I have always questioned why She would continue to appear all these decades for thousands of times if She would want the Church to proclaim Her Visitations authentic. She Herself knows that the Church cannot resume any sort of investigation until the apparitions cease. They allegedly have not. There are plenty of things to wonder about this. I am not quick to believe because of such oddities as this.

Fatima, Lourdes: these apparitions were investigated and proclaimed worthy of believe within a reasonably short amount of time. Medjugorje...no. Makes me wonder...

[CatherineM]

There have been many devotedly religious people who have stood outside of a building in Clearwater, Florida that appeared to have a picture of Our Lady in the windows. Their presence doesn't make that visitation legitimate in the eyes of the Church. We need to let the Vatican make these decisions, and ascent to them.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 September 2009 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1254353816' post='1975183']
I've always said this, that Our Lady herself conforms to the teachings of Our Holy Mother Church. She knows exactly what needs to be done in order for these apparitions to be proclaimed true. I have always questioned why She would continue to appear all these decades for thousands of times if She would want the Church to proclaim Her Visitations authentic. She Herself knows that the Church cannot resume any sort of investigation until the apparitions cease. They allegedly have not. There are plenty of things to wonder about this. I am not quick to believe because of such oddities as this.

Fatima, Lourdes: these apparitions were investigated and proclaimed worthy of believe within a reasonably short amount of time. Medjugorje...no. Makes me wonder...
[/quote]

Oh, the devil definitely could have cut in at any time with these, for sure. They may have started out pure, for example, but the devil likes destroying anything good and especially hates Mary. If Mary ever appeared there, it's quite possible that the devil may have tried to interfere with messages.

I don't see the fact that she possibly appeared for so long reason to doubt, personally (who knows what divine plans may have been; maybe more converts would come from a lengthy appearance, even if it isn't ever approved), but the obedience issues of course are to be taken seriously.

One also should remember that in today's world, there is a lot more skepticism around, even among faithful, so I'm not surprised at all that Lourdes and Fatima were accepted so readily and quickly - Fatima's sun miracle was mentioned in a secular newspaper the day after (?), when in today's world, they wouldn't [i]dare[/i] run a story on that. Also, well, those ended, so they were been able to be proclaimed worthy of belief in the first place.

Edited September 30, 2009 by lilac_angel

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='30 September 2009 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1254354296' post='1975189']
We need to let the Vatican make these decisions, and ascent to them.
[/quote]

Of course, I never said anything to the contrary.

Edited September 30, 2009 by lilac_angel

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 September 2009 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1254353816' post='1975183']
I've always said this, that Our Lady herself conforms to the teachings of Our Holy Mother Church. She knows exactly what needs to be done in order for these apparitions to be proclaimed true. I have always questioned why She would continue to appear all these decades for thousands of times if She would want the Church to proclaim Her Visitations authentic. She Herself knows that the Church cannot resume any sort of investigation until the apparitions cease. They allegedly have not. There are plenty of things to wonder about this. I am not quick to believe because of such oddities as this.

Fatima, Lourdes: these apparitions were investigated and proclaimed worthy of believe within a reasonably short amount of time. Medjugorje...no. Makes me wonder...
[/quote]

Very well said dominicansoul

[Jaime]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 September 2009 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1254353816' post='1975183']
I've always said this, that Our Lady herself conforms to the teachings of Our Holy Mother Church. She knows exactly what needs to be done in order for these apparitions to be proclaimed true. I have always questioned why She would continue to appear all these decades for thousands of times if She would want the Church to proclaim Her Visitations authentic. She Herself knows that the Church cannot resume any sort of investigation until the apparitions cease. They allegedly have not. There are plenty of things to wonder about this. I am not quick to believe because of such oddities as this.

Fatima, Lourdes: these apparitions were investigated and proclaimed worthy of believe within a reasonably short amount of time. Medjugorje...no. Makes me wonder...
[/quote]

The Church will not rule on the veracity of any apparition until the apparitions stop. However when the Church finds an apparition to be false, she can (and has) rule on it immediately. The fact that the Church has investigated and has not ruled yet infers that its possible.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 September 2009 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1254353816' post='1975183']
I've always said this, that Our Lady herself conforms to the teachings of Our Holy Mother Church. She knows exactly what needs to be done in order for these apparitions to be proclaimed true. I have always questioned why She would continue to appear all these decades for thousands of times if She would want the Church to proclaim Her Visitations authentic.
[/quote]

Does the length of an apparition have some kind of relation to its validity or the Church's teachings?

Edited October 1, 2009 by lilac_angel

[StColette]

[quote name='Slappo' date='30 September 2009 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1254352979' post='1975169']


It is permitted however for private devotion to continue while the apparitions remain condemned.
[/quote]

The apparitions aren't condemned. If they were condemned then not even private devotion would be allowed to continue.

[jmjtina]

Even Our Lady of Guadalupe pleaded with Juan Diego to go to his bishop, and ask, because at the same time, she was submitting herself to the Church authorities on the fact that a chapel be built.