Communion On The Hand

[aalpha1989]

[url="http://myheartwasrestless.blogspot.com/2009/08/communion-on-hand-in-portsmouth.html"]http://myheartwasrestless.blogspot.com/2009/08/communion-on-hand-in-portsmouth.html[/url]

What? Because of my six month sabbatical from phatmass, I might have missed a thread about this... but since when has a Bishop been allowed to forbid Communion on the tongue?

[StColette]

Did you even read the letter from the Bishop explaining why? Please read the Bishop's statement as to why it was forbidden for some time

[b]During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, I recommend that the following measures be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:[/b]

The Sign of Peace during Mass: instead of a handshake members of the congregation are asked to join their hands together, as in prayer, turn to their immediate neighbours, bowing slightly and saying “Peace be with you”.

Holy Communion is to be given only on the hand, not on the tongue or from the chalice.

Ministers of the Sacred Host are asked to ensure their hands are washed with sanitizers (provided) before and after ministering communion.

These regulations will remain in place until further notice. It is hoped that the reasons for this temporary policy will be understood and appreciated. They have been made out of particular pastoral concern for the vulnerable, namely, the elderly, children and those with underlying health problems.

Bishop Crispian Hollis


--------

Dioceses throughout the entire US started to not allow Communion on the tongue, sign of Peace by handshaking, and not allowing the Precious Blood to be consumed at Mass by the laity. It was only temporary in most dioceses unless there is a very large number of swine flu cases in that area. So careful not to jump to conclusions about the Bishops.

[Aloysius]

however, it is correct to say that the Bishop has [b]no[/b] authority to forbid the universal practice (receiving on the tongue) in favor of an indulted practice (receiving in the hand)

whatever the reason, the bishop has no such authority and any member of the faithful is free to ignore that instruction and present themselves to receive communion on the tongue, in which case it would be grossly immoral to deny them communion.

doesn't matter the reason, the bishop has no canonical authority to do it, even temporarily. he can SUGGEST it if he wishes, but he cannot MANDATE that people only receive on the hand. What he could theoretically do in terms of mandating anything would be, if a health crisis were big enough, to simply mandate the omission of the communion of the faithful from all masses in his diocese.

[AccountDeleted]

From that blog it appears that people are refusing to receive Communion at all rather than to receive it in the hand. This strikes me very much as something that would be very pleasing to the evil one, and I wonder sometimes if it isn't just a mark of spiritual pride to be so adamant about insisting on doing things the way that one wants, regardless of what the shepherds are asking us to do. I am not debating whether the Bishop has the canonical right to do this, only the response by the parishioners. Surely receiving in the hand is better than not receiving at all, especially as true reverence is in the heart, not the mouth.

Personally, I prefer to kneel and to receive on the tongue, and if given a choice, I even prefer intinction - and am a fan of the High Latin Mass (although I do love the N/O for being able to understand what is being said). But that isn't the point here. We have been asked to co-operate with something that is (hopefully) temporary during a time of a possible health danger, and it just seems to me that it would be more reverent and humble to accept the directions of the Bishop and pray for things to change. As the faithful of the Church, how much more efficacious would it be for us to support our Bishops as much as possible, even if they are asking something difficult of us?

[Slappo]

nunsense,

Many people disagree with allowing an indult for receiving on the hand at all. It is not know for sure that in the early Church it was received on the hand, even though there are letters from saints about how to properly do so as [b]it is not know if these letters are for receiving holy communion for oneself, or to distribute it to the sick like an EMHC might do today using a pyx.[/b]

I would not want to receive holy communion on the hand unless after receiving there was a basin with holy water for me to then cleanse my hands from any remnants of the precious body like many EMHC do after distributing communion, and the priest does when purifying the sacred vessels.


Also, it appears as if it isn't a strict mandate from the bishop, as he says:
During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, [b][u]I recommend[/u] that the following measures[/b] be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:


If it is only recommended then it isn't authoritative

[StColette]

[quote name='Slappo' date='30 September 2009 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1254334131' post='1974939']

Also, it appears as if it isn't a strict mandate from the bishop, as he says:
During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, [b][u]I recommend[/u] that the following measures[/b] be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:


If it is only recommended then it isn't authoritative
[/quote]

Exactly, he says recommend. There's a difference between recommending something be done or not be done and authoritatively saying something is forbidden or not forbidden.

[Archaeology cat]

Yes, some of the Bishops in England, my own included, have recommended that people receive on the hand due to the swine flu. It has not been mandated, because it can't be, it's just a recommendation. I still end up receiving on the tongue, because I'm juggling a toddler when I go up to receive, and I have to hold him with one hand, and hold his hands with the other hand (if I don't, he tries to steal a Host). Thankfully the monks are accommodating.

[StColette]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='30 September 2009 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1254337269' post='1974974']
Yes, some of the Bishops in England, my own included, have recommended that people receive on the hand due to the swine flu. It has not been mandated, because it can't be, it's just a recommendation. I still end up receiving on the tongue, because I'm juggling a toddler when I go up to receive, and I have to hold him with one hand, and hold his hands with the other hand (if I don't, he tries to steal a Host). Thankfully the monks are accommodating.
[/quote]

Exactly. Our parish recommended it for a brief time but did not refuse to give Communion on the tongue if that's what the parishioner wanted. Micah or I still have to carry Aaron up with us in our arms so receiving in the hand is not an option, even if we wanted to receive that way.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Slappo' date='01 October 2009 - 06:08 AM' timestamp='1254334131' post='1974939']
nunsense,

Many people disagree with allowing an indult for receiving on the hand at all. It is not know for sure that in the early Church it was received on the hand, even though there are letters from saints about how to properly do so as [b]it is not know if these letters are for receiving holy communion for oneself, or to distribute it to the sick like an EMHC might do today using a pyx.[/b]

I would not want to receive holy communion on the hand unless after receiving there was a basin with holy water for me to then cleanse my hands from any remnants of the precious body like many EMHC do after distributing communion, and the priest does when purifying the sacred vessels.


Also, it appears as if it isn't a strict mandate from the bishop, as he says:
During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, [b][u]I recommend[/u] that the following measures[/b] be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:


If it is only recommended then it isn't authoritative
[/quote]

I am not saying that a person shouldn't ask for Communion on the tongue or that the Bishop shouldn't give it that way. All I am saying is that if it is between receiving on the tongue and not receiving at all (which some people seem to be choosing) then I don't understand it. Sometimes I feel we are a little spoiled in our "free" countries. I have read stories of oppressed people having to hide the host and/or the wine in the most amazing places and ways (a medicine bottle with eye dropper for the Precious Blood) just to be able to receive and/or to take Communion to others. They were so grateful just to receive Our Lord that they didn't fuss about the means/method they were forced to use or feel scruples about touching the Host with their hand (which is what is seems like to me if the only option is NOT to receive). Jesus will not be defiled simply because my impure hand touches Him - I am already unworthy to receive Him - on the tongue OR in the hand, but "only say the Word and I shall be healed".

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='StColette' date='29 September 2009 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1254256153' post='1974431']
Did you even read the letter from the Bishop explaining why? Please read the Bishop's statement as to why it was forbidden for some time

[b]During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, I recommend that the following measures be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:[/b]

The Sign of Peace during Mass: instead of a handshake members of the congregation are asked to join their hands together, as in prayer, turn to their immediate neighbours, bowing slightly and saying "Peace be with you".

Holy Communion is to be given only on the hand, not on the tongue or from the chalice.

Ministers of the Sacred Host are asked to ensure their hands are washed with sanitizers (provided) before and after ministering communion.

These regulations will remain in place until further notice. It is hoped that the reasons for this temporary policy will be understood and appreciated. They have been made out of particular pastoral concern for the vulnerable, namely, the elderly, children and those with underlying health problems.

Bishop Crispian Hollis


--------

Dioceses throughout the entire US started to not allow Communion on the tongue, sign of Peace by handshaking, and not allowing the Precious Blood to be consumed at Mass by the laity. It was only temporary in most dioceses unless there is a very large number of swine flu cases in that area. So careful not to jump to conclusions about the Bishops.
[/quote]


I did read the letter. I also spoke to a priest of the diocese, who said that the bishop forbade him from distributing on the tongue. I didn't say anything about the bishop himself, only that he had no authority.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='StColette' date='29 September 2009 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1254256153' post='1974431']
Did you even read the letter from the Bishop explaining why? Please read the Bishop's statement as to why it was forbidden for some time

[b]During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, I recommend that the following measures be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:[/b]

The Sign of Peace during Mass: instead of a handshake members of the congregation are asked to join their hands together, as in prayer, turn to their immediate neighbours, bowing slightly and saying "Peace be with you".

Holy Communion is to be given only on the hand, not on the tongue or from the chalice.

Ministers of the Sacred Host are asked to ensure their hands are washed with sanitizers (provided) before and after ministering communion.

These regulations will remain in place until further notice. It is hoped that the reasons for this temporary policy will be understood and appreciated. They have been made out of particular pastoral concern for the vulnerable, namely, the elderly, children and those with underlying health problems.

Bishop Crispian Hollis


--------

Dioceses throughout the entire US started to not allow Communion on the tongue, sign of Peace by handshaking, and not allowing the Precious Blood to be consumed at Mass by the laity. It was only temporary in most dioceses unless there is a very large number of swine flu cases in that area. So careful not to jump to conclusions about the Bishops.
[/quote]

Excuse my language but the swine flu is a crappy reason to not give Communion on the tongue.

[StColette]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='30 September 2009 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1254355618' post='1975205']
Excuse my language but the swine flu is a crappy reason to not give Communion on the tongue.
[/quote]

Well, when you're seven months pregnant and at a higher risk of death if you catch it then talk to me. I receive on the tongue each time I go to Mass, but when my Bishop asks me out of safety for myself and others to not receive that way for a short period of time, then I'm going to obey my Bishop. Now, as I stated during this time when we were asked not to receive on the tongue and I was holding my son, the priest didn't refuse to give me Communion when I had to receive on the tongue rather than trying to do a balancing act with my son and the Eucharist. I have yet to see any proof or instance of where someone was refused the Eucharist because they wished to receive on the tongue rather than in the hand.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='StColette' date='30 September 2009 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1254356325' post='1975223']
Well, when you're seven months pregnant and at a higher risk of death if you catch it then talk to me. I receive on the tongue each time I go to Mass, but when my Bishop asks me out of safety for myself and others to not receive that way for a short period of time, then I'm going to obey my Bishop. Now, as I stated during this time when we were asked not to receive on the tongue and I was holding my son, the priest didn't refuse to give me Communion when I had to receive on the tongue rather than trying to do a balancing act with my son and the Eucharist. I have yet to see any proof or instance of where someone was refused the Eucharist because they wished to receive on the tongue rather than in the hand.
[/quote]

Well, go to the Diocese of Portsmouth. I've been to two Masses there where it happened.

[StColette]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='30 September 2009 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1254360502' post='1975287']
Well, go to the Diocese of Portsmouth. I've been to two Masses there where it happened.
[/quote]

Did this take place at the same Church? It could be possible that one of the priests has misinterpreted this bishop's recommendation, it wouldn't be the first time two people have misinterpreted one another.

[Aloysius]

the bishop recommended that the "measures be implemented"... in the Churches; he didn't just recommend that the faithful receive on the hand, but that all the churches implement measures to distribute only on the hand. This was outside the scope of his authority; or at least, is outside the scope of the pastors' authority, though this is clearly what he recommended the pastors to do: implement measures to only distribute on the hand. had he simply recommended that the faithful only present themselves for communion by the hand, it would have been acceptable as a mere recommendation; what he did here was clearly recommend that pastors only offer communion on the hand--something that according to the universal law of the Church, they may not do.