An Amazing Discovery

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='01 October 2009 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1254424071' post='1975770']
Denzinger is not divinely inspired. It represents at most the theological theories of the Western, and - in a few cases - the Eastern Churches. Nothing more.
[/quote]

Except when it quotes scripture, the liturgy is not divinely inspired either.

(Also, I am surprised you don't consider much of Denzinger inspired since a good portion is the documents of the first seven ecumenical councils.)

Edited October 1, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1254429566' post='1975799']
Except when it quotes scripture, the liturgy is not divinely inspired either.

(Also, I am surprised you don't consider much of Denzinger inspired since a good portion is the documents of the first seven ecumenical councils.)
[/quote]
The liturgy, properly understood, is scripture made alive, and so - on that particular topic - I cannot agree with you.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1254429566' post='1975799']
(Also, I am surprised you don't consider much of Denzinger inspired since a good portion is the documents of the first seven ecumenical councils.)
[/quote]
In the Eastern Church the dogmatic decrees of the councils are God-inspired, but only when they are chanted in the liturgy. The liturgy is the source of the Christian life.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='01 October 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1254430329' post='1975807']
The liturgy, properly understood, is scripture made alive, and so on that particular topic I cannot agree with you.
[/quote]

The Liturgy says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. Do you believe, then, that this is a divinely inspired truth?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1254430677' post='1975810']
The Liturgy says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. Do you believe, then, that this is a divinely inspired truth?
[/quote]
Nope, because the liturgy of my Church rejects that idea, and holds fast instead to the teaching of Christ in scripture . . . where the word "ekporeusis" is used exclusively for the procession of origin of the Holy Spirit from the Father alone.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='01 October 2009 - 05:38 PM' timestamp='1254436706' post='1975878']
Nope, because the liturgy of my Church rejects that idea, and holds fast instead to the teaching of Christ in scripture . . . where the word "ekporeusis" is used exclusively for the procession of origin of the Holy Spirit from the Father alone.
[/quote]

So do you not hold the Liturgy of the Latin Church to be inspired too?

[Nihil Obstat]

You know what really is an amazing discovery?

Resurrexi and Apotheoun disagree about something!

[/offtopic]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 October 2009 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1254437367' post='1975894']
You know what really is an amazing discovery?

Resurrexi and Apotheoun disagree about something!

[/offtopic]
[/quote]
Yes, that is amazing. But what is even more amazing is that we agree about the use of "cf." in textual citations.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 October 2009 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1254437367' post='1975894']
You know what really is an amazing discovery?

Resurrexi and Apotheoun disagree about something!

[/offtopic]
[/quote]

What are you talking about?

I never agreed that the Liturgy is inspired when it is not quoting Scripture.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='01 October 2009 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1254437801' post='1975901']
What are you talking about?

I never agreed that the Liturgy is inspired when it is not quoting Scripture.
[/quote]
That is what he said . . . we disagreed about the liturgy.

[Resurrexi]

Oh... I was thinking he had said that we agreed.

[Innocent]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='01 October 2009 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1254409457' post='1975552']

I think I'll try to find the whole Catechism in PDF too.
[/quote]

Here's one that was posted here on the Phorum before: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=71733&view=findpost&p=1364164"]CCC as a PDF file.[/url]

[b]EDIT:[/b] The file is no longer at the location given above, it seems. However, the good news is that the file still exists on the Internet Archive servers.

Same file, archived at the Internet Archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.utdallas.edu/~wjo031000/cat.pdf

[ or, here's a [url="http://web.archive.org/web/20050118102252/http://www.utdallas.edu/~wjo031000/cat.pdf"]Direct link[/url] to 3.25 MB file.] It seems to be just a raw html to PDF conversion and so the formatting isn't very aesthetic.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Innocent

[Innocent]

There's both bad news and good news.

The bad news is that the people at St. Michael Orthodox Church seem to have let their domain expire. Thus the original link to the Philokalia in the OP doesn't work anymore.

The good news is that the same PDF has now been placed in the Internet Archive by some kind soul:

LINK:[url="http://www.archive.org/details/Philokalia-TheCompleteText"] The Internet Archive: Community Texts: Philokalia, The Complete Text.[/url]