International Vocations And Immigration Rules

[jumpfrog]

I noticed that some communities (Passionists, for one) in the US specify that you must be a US citizen in order to have a vocation with their community. I am wondering about other communities and countries...I know the US is notoriously difficult to get legal residency in, regardless of the reason. How about other countries? Anyone have insight or experience about this?

[Orans]

I don't think this is the norm in the USA or in other countries. I know communities that do not make a fuss of -candidates- not being citizens of the country, and are willing to support them through the paperwork and process with Immigration.

But sometimes they will do this only after first profession. It all depends on the circumstances of the person.

[InHisLove726]

When I was discerning with the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in Milwaukee, WI, they had at least 2 Sisters who were temporarily professed--Sr. Paula Maria and Sr. M. Brigid--who were from Nicaragua and the Philippines. The Sisters supported their immigration and residency in the United States. In fact, when I went on my live-in, Sr. Brigid told me about the test she had for citizenship and the shots she had to get before she immigrated.

I give this example because it is possible to come to the US if you find a good community that is willing to help you with the process. God bless!

[cmaD2006]

I can actually answer in both directions :-)

I was a postulant with an american community (I am american). The community actually has foreign sisters as well as american sisters, and they were willing to deal with the immigration issues.

From what I can tell ... the immigration issues are more difficult to deal with in the US vs in other countries.

I was also a postulant with a community in Argentina. That wasn't an issue, and the community dealt with my immigration papers without a problem. I'm not sure what would have happened further along -- since I really wasn't willing to give up my US citizenship (and after renewing residency a certain number of times in Argentina you have to apply for citizenship).

But thanks goodness I never got to that point :-)

Soooo ... it is possible to enter a foreign (whatever foreign means ) community.

Finally I think the bigger questions need to be culture ... it is actually a challenge to enter a community that isn't from your country. There are cultural issues.

Blessings and peace to all,

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' date='27 September 2009 - 01:18 AM' timestamp='1254028720' post='1973238']
Finally I think the bigger questions need to be culture ... it is actually a challenge to enter a community that isn't from your country. There are cultural issues.

[/quote]



I agree. I started a thread on this recently, here:

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=98481&st=0&p=1964115&fromsearch=1&#entry1964115

[Laudem Gloriae]

As I am looking to enter the Carmel of Sheffield in England and I am a US citizen, I can get an Irish passport that gives me the ability to live in any of the European Countries. I can get this passport as my mother was born and raised in Ireland. People can get it by a parent or a grandparent born in Ireland. Much easier and cheaper than going the visa route, as "nunsense" has mentioned her difficulties in this!

[AccountDeleted]

Whether or not a community will accept a "foreign" applicant depends upon the community itself, and especially the Council (in the case of Carmelites). Since immigration paperwork is not only time consuming, but can also involve a great deal of expense for the community, I can understand why some communities might prefer that the applicant either be a citizen of their country, or perhaps be able to obtain permanent residency on their own prior to entering the community.

Prior to entering Wolverhampton, I did all the paperwork myself and paid the fees involved to obtain what was then known as a "religious worker" visa. This visa expired while I was in Sheffield and the immigration department eliminated this category and introduced a new "Minister of Religion" category to replace it, and made it impossible for those already holding the old visa to stay in the country while applying for a new one! This is another example of why some communities don't want to deal with these issues - they can get very complex. I have heard that some of the UK Carmels are now having difficulties changing over their existing "foreign" postulants to the new visa, so they are not really interested in accepting more overseas applicants at this time. Under the new rules, the community itself must first be approved by the British Home Office (immigration dept) to receive a "Sponsor Certificate" before they can sponsor anyone, and this is an expensive process, the costs increasing with each applicant they want to sponsor (and does not include the fee that the applicant herself must pay for the visa).

Australia has immigration catergories for those wishing to enter as religious workers, but once again, this is a complex procedure, and costly, so if the applicant does not meet these costs, then the community would have to do so. The more established communities might be able to afford this, but new, emerging ones might find it hard to do so, even if they wanted to, unless they had the help of a benefactor or two!

Anyway, the point is, that it isn't impossible to enter in another country.

Edited September 27, 2009 by nunsense

[mariaassunta]

I can comment very well on this topic as I went through the USA process to become a permanent resident while on a Religious Visa. For me my Religious community took care of everything and the Lawyer did most of the work, I only had to sign papers, attend interviews and go for a medical examination to get updated records etc. I have to say the process in itself went by rather quick and smoothly. It all depends though on the country you are from and the relationship they have with the USA, for example for one Sister it took 6 years for her to get her greencard because of the relationships of the countries. She had known she was accepted as a resident from year one, but the USA actually didnt release her card until 5 years later. If you have anymore questions I will be happy to answer.

[laetitia crucis]

Also, I have recently heard from my former community that the U.S. is no longer granting "Religious Visas" as of September 9th. So, many of the foreign sisters missioned here in the U.S. have had their green card application papers totally tossed by the government. They have to start anew via a "Work Visa" instead. Several of the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate had to leave the U.S. earlier this year because of the same problem.

So sad... in a country that claims "religious freedom" one cannot stay in the country with a "Religious Visa" anymore.

[mariaassunta]

This is not true the R1 Religious Worker visa is still existing and the Special Immigrant visa status still exists too, its just now that the visa has to be applied for to the UCSIS first before you can go to the consulate in your country. Here is a link, but according to the attorney I had its not changed much. here is a link

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=e51026e8bb89e110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=68439c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

[Starets]

I think part of the problem is that the Religious Workers Visa has been abused so much. I renewed my Canadian passport first, since it only had about a year to go anyway. Then my abbot sent me a whole bunch of supporting documents to speed up the process. We have more non-US citizens than US citizens here at Christ in the Desert. I called to make an appointment at the American Embassy to get the R1 Visa. I had the appointment for the wednesday of the next week. i had my R1 Visa two days later. So from Canada it's easy, or at least was easy.

Because the R1 Visa program is ending soon, and current holders might not be allowed to stay, my abbot tried to get me moved over to an immigrant visa. He wrote up a 22 page letter and included 18 supporting documents. It was refused. So he and I (and our immigration lawyer!) will be trying again in late March as that will mark 2 years in the country. He thinks it will be easier then. After all, he will be able to show that I have served as a religious worker in this country for two years!

So it definitely depends on the country you are coming in from.

[cmaD2006]

... and it depends on the country you are going to. I suspect its harder to enter the european countries than other countries.

And I also suspect that for many countries having a US passport may make it easier. But I don't really know.

[HisChild]

I've heard of many instances where it's more difficult when the applicant is not in an active apostolate. It's one thing to come to the US when you are, say, a nurse in a religious community and are here to work as well as pray, but I've heard of a lot of troubles especially with those form other countries entering cloistered communities. It's the whole 'making a solid contribution to American society' argument that some govt. officials use.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='HisChild' date='28 September 2009 - 06:59 AM' timestamp='1254088753' post='1973447']
I've heard of many instances where it's more difficult when the applicant is not in an active apostolate. It's one thing to come to the US when you are, say, a nurse in a religious community and are here to work as well as pray, but I've heard of a lot of troubles especially with those form other countries entering cloistered communities. It's the whole 'making a solid contribution to American society' argument that some govt. officials use.
[/quote]

This is exactly the problem that the sisters (that I know of) are having. I mean, if you're in formation with a semi-contemplative community and your daily schedule basically revolves around prayer and study with minimal or no formal apostolate... I think this is the trouble the sisters have been having.

Anyhoo, I apologize for the confusion on my part. I guess the sister who told me about the Sept. 9th thing yesterday was misinformed. Thank you for the clarification and link, angelofmary.

[JHFamily]

On 9/27/2009 at 12:17 AM, nunsense said:

I have heard that some of the UK Carmels are now having difficulties changing over their existing "foreign" postulants to the new visa, so they are not really interested in accepting more overseas applicants at this time.

I know of a couple of situations just like this with another order.  The two men had to come back to the U.S. while waiting for their new visas and rejoin their community.  It was a headache getting the first one, and an even bigger headache getting the second.