Why No "pew Bibles?"

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Jason' date='Apr 4 2004, 01:36 PM'] I was trying to say that, beause the East is the other lung, the Holy Father said of the Catholic Church. I'm sorry, I need to be more clear! [/quote]
It's cool.

[theculturewarrior]

Before I enter into the doctrinal dance with you, Bruce, can you find me any instances in the N.T. in which Jesus cited lengthy passages from scripture, so that the apostles would have needed the texts to follow along? Can you find me where in the bible it says the apostles kept their pew bibles with them? Can you find me a parallel in Jewish worship? My understanding was that the rabbi would read from the Torah, and the sheep in the pews followed as best they could without their pew bibles.

I'll be right back with a bible verse explaining why we like to have [b]validly[/b] ordained MEN leading our worship.

[theculturewarrior]

John 20:20


"Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained. "

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 4 2004, 02:45 PM']
The READERS DIGEST version, Missilettes, is like Chick's comics that most here find insulting, for the illiterate. I'm talking REAL Bibles, not snippets of the day ... [/quote]
Mass is for worshiping God. It's not time to thumb through the bible and ignore the Priest.

No bible was in a pew for at least 1700 years.... why would they need one now?
Catholics have bibles at home to read. The Missilettes are there for those who want to follow along. There is One Teaching all over the world in the Catholic Church... It's One Faith. Every Catholic should be on the same page. Wherever we go, we know there is a Church teaching a lesson that we would hear back home. The daily readings from the OT and NT are related, they are easily found in the Missilette.

75% of the Mass is Scripture, we don't need bible's in the pews.

How rude it would be to be pre-occupied with thumbing through a bible while the Priest or lectors were talking. We are to absorb ourselves in the teaching and prayer, not in our own private interpretations Scripture.


The Catholic Church worships the way the Apostles taught.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Joseph]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 4 2004, 12:25 PM'] Perhaps it is just the two Catholic Church church's I've gone to Mass in recently, but I was wondering WHY, the Catholic Church doesn't provide "Pew Bibles" like every Protestant denomination does?

There are racks in the pews, stuffed with this and that, so there is literature galore, but no Bibles?

Does your parish church have them, or is this the norm all around, not to provide them at all? [/quote]
There are not bibles in the pews of [i]every[/i] Protestant denomination. I used to be a Methodist, and have visited other churches and have never noticed bibles.

Why would you need bibles anyway? I would assume most people who want to read a bible own one.....and besides, if you want to follow along with the readings, they are there right in the misselette.

You have all the time in the world to read the bible outside of mass. As I noticed a few other mentioned, your attention should be on what is taking place during mass.

[willguy]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 4 2004, 02:06 PM'] Guess what. The WORDS surrounding the communion were just about identical in both, and almost perfectly identical to the Catholic Church communion part of Mass.

The ONLY thing really 'different' was the Priest.

The passages, invocations, and such are so similar, that you could swear they are all the same.

So, it is the PRIEST, the MAN up front, that is the differentiating factor, not what is done.

So, you really believe more in the PRIEST than activity, the consecration is the issue, not the communion.

Of course, you would have to take the blinders off to notice the similarities, and have less denominational bias. Not really all that likely. [/quote]
I doubt that they were that similar. I've been to several protestant communion services. Do their prayers have phrases like "Pray, brethren, that our [b]sacrifice [/b]may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father," "Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. [b]It will become for us the bread of life[/b]," "Grant that we, who are nourished by [b]his body and blood[/b], may be filled with his Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ," "[b]This is the Lamb of God[/b] who takes away the sins of the world"? I don't think so, though I have been to one Pentecostal service where the preacher actually before the communion reminded the people that they do not believe that communion is the literal body and blood of Christ but is only symbolic.

As for pew Bibles, I don't get the purpose of them. Seriously, the only time they are used is when the preacher says "Open your Bibles to..." and then usually reads the passage for the people anyways. A missalette does the same thing, and its less page turning. Also, remember that the focus of Mass is not to come and hear the priest speak. The Liturgy of the Word is only half to deal. The focal point of Mass is the Eucharist. An hour long sermon like many Protestant churches have would take away from the true highlight of the Mass.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 4 2004, 02:27 PM'] We are to absorb ourselves in the teaching and prayer, not in our own private interpretations Scripture. [/quote]
yuppers, plus there's this little problem that has become my favorite verse:

[i]Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation . . . [/i](2 Peter 1:20 NAB)

of course i know that it only refers to the OT, but if it refers to OT, it certainly implies validity with the NT.

Edited April 5, 2004 by MagiDragon

[willguy]

Bruce,

several of us have asked a simple question "What is the point of pew Bibles?" Any response?

Also, you mock the missallets, but wouldn't they work just as well. After all, in Protestant services the preacher will say to open up to certain verses and those are what he reads and preaches on. There usually isn't, in my experience, a lot of extra page turning with people looking up their own verses. So why couldn't he just hand out a sheet of paper with the verses that he's going to preach about on them? Oh wait, some preachers do this. Then why couldn't he just take and bind all of those pieces of paper into a book and call it a missalete?

[Bruce S]

[quote]several of us have asked a simple question "What is the point of pew Bibles?" Any response? Also, you mock the missallets,[/quote]

I don't MOCK them, I think they are really just to snippety to be of real value, they have some nice stuff in them like prayers etc, and they ARE needed for the formal group responses that the Catholic Church uses, that most Evangelical church's do not have.

Pew Bibles are there for the TAKING too, at my church, often the pastor say's if you don't HAVE a Bible, please just take the one in front of you home, gratis.

It is something that all our denominations use as THE foundational source, so the foundational source needs to be there to USE, in totality, without editing, which the missilettes do all the time to MAKE a point, and HIDE others that are inconvient.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 6 2004, 08:22 AM'] It is something that all our denominations use as THE foundational source, so the foundational source needs to be there to USE, in totality, without editing, which the missilettes do all the time to MAKE a point, and HIDE others that are inconvient. [/quote]
This may come off wrong, but the Catholic Church uses Jesus Christ as it's foundational source, not a Bible.

A Bible is just paper and ink without the knowledge or intellect to understand it.

For mass, a missal is more helpful to me because it organizes the Bible readings according to the day. I can take my missal with me anywhere in the world and know exactly whats going to be read no matter what Catholic Church I walk in to. That's the universality--the unity of the Church.

A Bible would be better for Bible study or Catechism classes, but the mass is centered around Christ's final sacrifice on Calvalry--and His invitation for us to participate in that Sacrifice.

[Bruce S]

[quote]A Bible is just paper and ink without the knowledge or intellect to understand it.
[/quote]

OK, grin.

Really, if one makes some effort, and engages in even limited bible studies AND USES THE COMMENTARIES, from ***ALL*** sources, everyone with a modicum of intelligence will get the message.

Didn't Jesus say that He was going to hide the message He brought from the WISE?

Seems He was telling the truth, AGAIN...

[theculturewarrior]

He also said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[Aloysius]

It is:

[color=red]HE WHO HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR [/color]

[color=orange]NOT[/color]

[color=purple]he who has eyes let him read[/color]

the end, i listen to the Scriptures the way the early illiterate Christians did.

Pax et Amorque Christi

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 6 2004, 09:39 AM']
OK, grin.

Really, if one makes some effort, and engages in even limited bible studies AND USES THE COMMENTARIES, from ***ALL*** sources, everyone with a modicum of intelligence will get the message.

Didn't Jesus say that He was going to hide the message He brought from the WISE?

Seems He was telling the truth, AGAIN... [/quote]
wait a second... do you not see the hypocrisy there:

"Study all the commentaries, every source, every scholar's book you can find, this will help you get the message"

"Jesus' message is hidden from the wise."




i listen to the Apostolic Church, and have no need to go to every source i can find just to figure out what it means. The Holy Spirit and Jesus the Christ have promised me a pillar of Fire, a pillar of Truth, a Church of Apostles to whom the Spirit of Truth has come. I do not need human knowledge to figure it out, i am taught and i am sheep. And the APostles who teach me too are sheep, sheep of the Shepherd, and the Sheperd guards them from error in teaching so that they may instruct the rest of His sheep. thus we do not need human wisdom, we rely on the wisdom of the Church guided by the Spirit. He has hidden the meaning from the multitudes of Protestant scholars who consider themselves wise and learned because of their Bible colledge training or whatever.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 6 2004, 09:39 AM']
OK, grin.

Really, if one makes some effort, and engages in even limited bible studies AND USES THE COMMENTARIES, from ***ALL*** sources, everyone with a modicum of intelligence will get the message.

Didn't Jesus say that He was going to hide the message He brought from the WISE?

Seems He was telling the truth, AGAIN... [/quote]
This is where I really don't understand Protestant logic.

You say you don't need the Church to understand the Bible, but then turn around and say that you rely on the commentary. So, in essence, you're replacing the Church with whoever authored the commentary. I don't really see that as an improvement, and common sensically speaking, I see that as unwise.

Your logic does seem contradictory Bruce.

God bless.