Jaime Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 September 2009 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1253648153' post='1971122'] Better stated a number of the early Israelites worshiped false gods forsaking the True God. I still do not agree with Modernist thought that polytheism is found and taught in the Old Testament. [/quote] Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the facts. [quote] Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them,'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What ishis name?' Then what shall I tell them?" [sup]14[/sup] God said to Moses, "I am who I am . [sup][[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1594b"]b[/url]][/sup] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' " [/quote] If as you believe, they were monotheistic up to this point, there is no need for this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='22 September 2009 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1253651237' post='1971134'] If as you believe, they were monotheistic up to this point, there is no need for this discussion. [/quote] That passage only shows that the Israelites did not know the name of God. Edited September 22, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 ASTRAL. If you're going to be a new age goober, at least be a literate one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='21 September 2009 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1253591248' post='1970837'] Catholics should be mostly sceptical of all "supernatural" occurrences outside of the sacraments, I think. If they are true, they will be proven in due time. [/quote] Preternatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='21 September 2009 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1253538172' post='1970372'] I think I went pretty easy on someone who called me a servant of Satan at least three times (and in a variety of ways). [/quote] Ridiculous. Everyone knows you worship Nyarlothotep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' date='22 September 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1253651237' post='1971134'] Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the facts. [/quote] The idea that polytheism is [u]taught[/u] in the Pentateuch denies that it is divinely inspired, and sacred scripture. How can God teach polytheism? How could the Holy Ghost author a teaching counter to Himself? According to Sacred Scripture it was Abraham, not Moses, that God revealed Himself as One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 September 2009 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1253654685' post='1971159'] The idea that polytheism is [u]taught[/u] in the Pentateuch denies that it is divinely inspired, and sacred scripture. How can God teach polytheism? How could the Holy Ghost author a teaching counter to Himself? According to Sacred Scripture it was Abraham, not Moses, that God revealed Himself as One. [/quote] Polytheism is not taught in any part of the bible. God reveals himself more fully through scripture. Scripture demonstrates the growth of of our understanding. Until the moment of revelation with Moses, the Israelites did not fully understand that there were no other gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' date='22 September 2009 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1253655157' post='1971162'] Polytheism is not taught in any part of the bible. God reveals himself more fully through scripture. Scripture demonstrates the growth of of our understanding. Until the moment of revelation with Moses, the Israelites did not fully understand that there were no other gods. [/quote] I have homework, but in response here are two articles. One short and sweet the other detailed to the teeth. http://icatholicism.net/apologetics/radio-replies/rr3-i/rr3q4.html http://markshea.blogspot.com/2009/07/lots-of-people-suppose-monotheism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 September 2009 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1253658501' post='1971194'] I have homework, but in response here are two articles. One short and sweet the other detailed to the teeth. [url="http://icatholicism.net/apologetics/radio-replies/rr3-i/rr3q4.html"]http://icatholicism....r3-i/rr3q4.html[/url] [url="http://markshea.blogspot.com/2009/07/lots-of-people-suppose-monotheism.html"]http://markshea.blog...monotheism.html[/url] [/quote] I hope the homework is going well. The first article articulates my point. The Mark Shea article is not what I'm talking about at all. [quote]At first sight the most primitive traditions found in the Vedic booksseem polytheistic; but a deeper scrutiny shows an individual Deity, andindicates that the plurality of gods is really a plurality of effectsor created manifestations. This ancient tradition was a survival of theprimitive convictions of our first parents. [b]But even as the Jews werealways prone to fall into polytheism[/b] despite the special protection ofGod,so the Gentile nations degenerated in their religious notions, and theidea of a plurality of gods became quite common among the rank and fileof peoples.[/quote] What is more to the point is the Jews did not realize they were monotheistic until Exodus. Prior to that they thought the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were different. They believed the Egyptian and Canaanite gods had power, just not as much as their God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Brandon Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 After some thought, it would be absolutely childish of me to stay away because one person rubbed me the wrong way. If I can, I would like to apologize. I am sorry, not only to her, to all of you, you all had to see that. that was not fair to you. HisChildForever, I forgive you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Brandon Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='21 September 2009 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1253508816' post='1970251'] silly point to clarify, but I feel the need to: you cannot be a Pagan and a monotheist, either. Monotheism means you believe there to be only one God, that there do not now exist nor have there ever existed any other Gods but that one. perhaps you mean you're a monotheist in that you worship only one God, but if you ally yourself with paganism, you admit the existence of other gods that other pagans worship. if you think that the other people's gods are not real, well, you're not exactly a pagan are you? what exactly would keep you a pagan if you could honestly say "the gods that other pagans worship are not real, only my god is real"? [/quote] here I feel it is a simple difference of cultures, Your undestanding of Paganism is different from mine, just as my lack of understanding of Christianity kind of leads me to question "why not?" but I'm not seeking Paganism any longer, I'm seeking Christ, so i'll take your word for it and switch to simply "non-denominational" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 [quote name='Christopher Brandon' date='22 September 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1253675378' post='1971302'] After some thought, it would be absolutely childish of me to stay away because one person rubbed me the wrong way. If I can, I would like to apologize. I am sorry, not only to her, to all of you, you all had to see that. that was not fair to you. HisChildForever, I forgive you. [/quote] Glad to hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='22 September 2009 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1253664110' post='1971230'] I hope the homework is going well. The first article articulates my point. The Mark Shea article is not what I'm talking about at all.[/quote] Homework as always sux. But anyway, I'm glad that you do not believe that Holy Scripture teaches that other gods exist(ed). Forgive my confusion of your argument, because others that have made a similar stance do use parts of Scripture to say that other gods exist, or that the Israelites were polytheist. Yes the idea that some Israelites believed in many gods, is a given. But there were other Israelites who believed in One God, evidence of this is that Scripture does not teach other gods exist which you agree. And also the point of the first article which you state articulates your point. Again a number of the early Israelites worshiped false gods, forsaking the True God, but their were others that did not fall away. Edited September 23, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 [quote]Homework as always sux.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='23 September 2009 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1253743546' post='1971765'] Homework as always sux. But anyway, I'm glad that you do not believe that Holy Scripture teaches that other gods exist(ed). Forgive my confusion of your argument, because others that have made a similar stance do use parts of Scripture to say that other gods exist, or that the Israelites were polytheist. Yes the idea that some Israelites believed in many gods, is a given. But there were other Israelites who believed in One God, evidence of this is that Scripture does not teach other gods exist which you agree. And also the point of the first article which you state articulates your point. Again a number of the early Israelites worshiped false gods, forsaking the True God, but their were others that did not fall away. [/quote] Which articulates the greater distinction between pagans and Israelites. Whether the Israelites knew that the God of Abraham was the God of Isaac were one and the same is one thing. But whether or not they knew, they knew they were in service to God. They served him. That is a critical difference between paganism and Judaism (and Christianity) That and the fact that their gods don't actually exist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now