Her Choice, Her Problem

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='09 September 2009 - 09:54 AM' timestamp='1252504457' post='1963787']


"Pro-choice" men are the real chauvinist pigs.
[/quote]


How the hell do you get here?

[Hassan]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='09 September 2009 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1252511158' post='1963821']
If only women adopted the feminine genius that God designed!
[/quote]


1 Timothy 2

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. [b]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.[/b]


I guess I miss the genius of the design. Or how it is anything other than a patriarchal design which reduces women to a second class role.

To this day in your Church women may not take a serious leading role. They may not become Pope, Bishop, Cardinal, Priest or even deacon.

[StColette]

[quote name='Hassan' date='09 September 2009 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1252522367' post='1963903']
1 Timothy 2

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. [b]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.[/b]


I guess I miss the genius of the design. Or how it is anything other than a patriarchal design which reduces women to a second class role.

To this day in your Church women may not take a serious leading role. They may not become Pope, Bishop, Cardinal, Priest or even deacon.
[/quote]


Take it to the debate table...not to Open Mic and not in this thread because it's off topic.

[picchick]

[quote name='Hassan' date='09 September 2009 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1252522367' post='1963903']
1 Timothy 2

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. [b]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.[/b]


I guess I miss the genius of the design. Or how it is anything other than a patriarchal design which reduces women to a second class role.

To this day in your Church women may not take a serious leading role. They may not become Pope, Bishop, Cardinal, Priest or even deacon.
[/quote]
I have often struggled with this passage. There is so much in Paul's letters about women "learning their place". However, women do have leading roles in the Church, more than you think. Just not the ones that you say. A mother cannot be a father and visa versa. That is how the roles of deacon, priest, cardinal, bishop, and pope are. They are a fatherly role. There are (and, I believe, will continue to be) women who have come to scold these men and guide them back to holiness.

But if you look apart from the Church, the second class role is everywhere, in many churches, in many religions, in society itself.

[picchick]

[quote name='StColette' date='09 September 2009 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1252522564' post='1963905']
Take it to the debate table...not to Open Mic and not in this thread because it's off topic.
[/quote]

oops, sorry

[StColette]

[quote name='picchick' date='09 September 2009 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1252522890' post='1963909']
oops, sorry
[/quote]

lol sry that did come across as a little too harsh lol I need to add a smiley lol I could just see the topic exploding and going way off from the original topic.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Hassan' date='09 September 2009 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1252521652' post='1963898']
How the hell do you get here?
[/quote]


I get there by observing:

1. Anti-abortion men are frequently labeled "chauvinist pigs" by the feminist establishment, which infers from their opposition to abortion rights that such men think women are incapable of properly exercizing free agency and belong barefoot and pregnant

When in fact ...

2. It is pro-abortion rights men who are participating, consciously or not, in the system of male power and domination that views the female body as containing an intrinsic flaw, i.e., the capacity for conception.

Abortion is a tool used to compensate for the effects of this perceived disability. When people get sick, they go to a doctor for a prescription. "The Pill" is used by women to treat the female disease known as fertility ... once that contaigon is eliminated, women's bodies are made more like the perfect male model ... incapable of gestating a fetus.

Modern feminism has always been about giving women the opportunity to be like the male "ideal." "Success" for the feminist movement is measured to whatever degree women are able to adopt standards of male dress, occupation and comportment for themselves. "Equality" is framed not in terms of ambiguous gender but sameness of gender, that gender being the "better" one, the male gender.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Lilllabettt

[picchick]

[quote name='StColette' date='09 September 2009 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1252523526' post='1963917']
lol sry that did come across as a little too harsh lol I need to add a smiley lol I could just see the topic exploding and going way off from the original topic.
[/quote]

no it didn't come across as harsh at all and I don't think you needed to add a smilie. I agree with you. I just am sorry that I particiapted

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='09 September 2009 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1252511158' post='1963821']
It inspires me to want to learn about what God's image for womanhood really is. I've read a good portion of a book called Captivating that talks about some of that...
[/quote]

My girlfriend and I have read it and found parts of it useful