Did Hitler Want War?

[BG45]

http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2009/09/01/did_hitler_want_war

[quote]On Sept. 1, 1939, 70 years ago, the German Army crossed the Polish frontier. On Sept. 3, Britain declared war.

Six years later, 50 million Christians and Jews had perished. Britain was broken and bankrupt, Germany a smoldering ruin. Europe had served as the site of the most murderous combat known to man, and civilians had suffered worse horrors than the soldiers.

By May 1945, Red Army hordes occupied all the great capitals of Central Europe: Vienna, Prague, Budapest, Berlin. A hundred million Christians were under the heel of the most barbarous tyranny in history: the Bolshevik regime of the greatest terrorist of them all, Joseph Stalin.

The German-Polish war had come out of a quarrel over a town the size of Ocean City, Md., in summer. Danzig, 95 percent German, had been severed from Germany at Versailles in violation of Woodrow Wilson's principle of self-determination. Even British leaders thought Danzig should be returned.

Why did Warsaw not negotiate with Berlin, which was hinting at an offer of compensatory territory in Slovakia? Because the Poles had a war guarantee from Britain that, should Germany attack, Britain and her empire would come to Poland's rescue.

...

Because Hitler wanted to end the war in 1940, almost two years before the trains began to roll to the camps. [/quote]

More of this drivel in the article.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='BG45' date='02 September 2009 - 04:35 PM' timestamp='1251920102' post='1959935']
[url="http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2009/09/01/did_hitler_want_war"]http://townhall.com/...hitler_want_war[/url]



More of this drivel in the article.
[/quote]


Maybe you could explain why you think its drival, instead of just stating it is? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]


Jim

[Lounge Daddy]

What's wrong with questioning history?

Edited September 2, 2009 by Lounge Daddy

[CatherineM]

I don't think Hitler wanted war. He was hoping everyone would just give him what he wanted without a fight. He basically started the war because the financing he got to rebuild Germany was coming due. Balloon payments can be such a bummer.

[BG45]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='02 September 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1251922420' post='1959950']
Maybe you could explain why you think its drival, instead of just stating it is? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]


Jim
[/quote]

And hello to you too. For one thing, I find the implication that Hitler didn't want to commit the Holocaust and that the Allies forced him to, as stated in the commentary about it all being two years before the trains started rolling to be a piece of croutons. For another, one doesn't show how little one wants war by continued annexation of neighboring powers. Third, even if a nation really wants just one city, it's not a reason to go to war, and for an intelligent man, Buchanan seems to be completely ignoring the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact that the Soviet Union and the Nazis had signed in order to carve apart Poland; [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/6127277/World-War-2-Poland-was-conspiring-with-Nazis-to-destroy-Soviet-Union-Russia-claims.html"]even though that's now coming under fire from those in Russia who are trying to say that certain Polish politicians were trying to court the Nazis to destroy the Soviet Union in conjunction with other anti-bolshevik according to recently released documents.[/url]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='02 September 2009 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1251923771' post='1959959']
What's wrong with questioning history?
[/quote]

I personally feel there's a difference between questioning history as we know it, and assigning blame for tens of millions of deaths to various other parties on the anniversary of the worst conflict in human history. Not to say Hitler didn't do good things for Germany, he did; he built roads, created jobs, restored a sense of natural pride, etc. And comparatively the French were well treated compared to the rest of his conquests as well, although modern historians don't like to dwell on that.


[quote name='CatherineM' date='02 September 2009 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1251927074' post='1959990']
I don't think Hitler wanted war. He was hoping everyone would just give him what he wanted without a fight. He basically started the war because the financing he got to rebuild Germany was coming due. Balloon payments can be such a bummer.
[/quote]

Hitler may not have initially wanted war, but still he did begin one. Once it was underway, aside from some token attempts, he didn't try to end it except in blitzkrieg. One would think, given the nature of politics, that he could have continued to stall indefinitely on his payments, much like almost every modern government.

Edited September 2, 2009 by BG45

[Saint Therese]

He didn't want war?? Is that why Germany spent so many years amassing a huge armed forces? It is drivel to say that Hitler didn't want war. To assume that Hitler/Germany would have acted honorably if Warsaw had negotiated is the essence of naivete. Stalin assumed that Hitler would honor their agreement, but he didn't.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='BG45' date='02 September 2009 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1251928017' post='1960013']
And hello to you too. For one thing, I find the implication that Hitler didn't want to commit the Holocaust and that the Allies forced him to, as stated in the commentary about it all being two years before the trains started rolling to be a piece of croutons. For another, one doesn't show how little one wants war by continued annexation of neighboring powers. Third, even if a nation really wants just one city, it's not a reason to go to war, and for an intelligent man, Buchanan seems to be completely ignoring the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact that the Soviet Union and the Nazis had signed in order to carve apart Poland; [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/6127277/World-War-2-Poland-was-conspiring-with-Nazis-to-destroy-Soviet-Union-Russia-claims.html"]even though that's now coming under fire from those in Russia who are trying to say that certain Polish politicians were trying to court the Nazis to destroy the Soviet Union in conjunction with other anti-bolshevik according to recently released documents.[/url]



I personally feel there's a difference between questioning history as we know it, and assigning blame for tens of millions of deaths to various other parties on the anniversary of the worst conflict in human history. Not to say Hitler didn't do good things for Germany, he did; he built roads, created jobs, restored a sense of natural pride, etc. And comparatively the French were well treated compared to the rest of his conquests as well, although modern historians don't like to dwell on that.




Hitler may not have initially wanted war, but still he did begin one. Once it was underway, aside from some token attempts, he didn't try to end it except in blitzkrieg. One would think, given the nature of politics, that he could have continued to stall indefinitely on his payments, much like almost every modern government.
[/quote]

From what I remember reading and hearing Pat Buchanan on this issue, he wasn't saying that Hitler, didn't want a war, as the title of this thread is contending, but Hitler, after he invaded Poland, wanted to end the war he was now in, because he didn't want to have his military strung out too far. However, when Great Britain and France declared war on Germany, out of a military alliance they had with Poland, it forced Hitler to turn towards France. Until that time, Hitler was heading east, and Buchanan's opinion is that Great Britain and France would've been wiser to allow Hitler to continue in this path, where he would've been weakened in Russia. Meanwhile, Great Britain and France could've built up their military forces, which would've deter-er Hitler from attacking them. Afterwards, they could've taken on Hitler's weakened forces more easily.

Of course its 60 years of hindsight.

Buchanan's purpose in the book, was to warn Americans about the US getting into alliances, like NATO, especially as NATO was expanding into nations bordering Russia.

Hello to you too BTW.

I'm new here and just trying to get use to the editing features.


Jim

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='02 September 2009 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1251935848' post='1960070']
He didn't want war?? Is that why Germany spent so many years amassing a huge armed forces? It is drivel to say that Hitler didn't want war. To assume that Hitler/Germany would have acted honorably if Warsaw had negotiated is the essence of naivete. Stalin assumed that Hitler would honor their agreement, but he didn't. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Pat Buchanan didn't say Hitler didn't want war per se, but he wanted to halt the war he was involved with after invading Poland, probably to reinforce his troops. Its very probable, at that point in time, Hitler most likely did not want war "with the West." Great Britain's declaration of war on Germany, forced him into it, before he was ready.

Jim

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='02 September 2009 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1251927074' post='1959990']
I don't think Hitler wanted war. He was hoping everyone would just give him what he wanted without a fight. He basically started the war because the financing he got to rebuild Germany was coming due. Balloon payments can be such a bummer.
[/quote]

iawtc


It would also be noteworthy to remember that Hitler brought respect to the German culture after WWI. They were in disarray and he made them a proud nation again. The German people may have had a couple qualms about Hitler, but he did raise their status level. In the movie the Dark Knight, Alfred suggests to Batman that he doesn't understand his enemy and perhaps the mob leaders in their unsettledness turned to a person they didn't fully understand.

Now, I am not defending Hitler's actions. He did want war........he attacked Russia when they were his allies, and he opened up a second front when any military strategy would tell you not too.

If Hitler did not initially want war to begin with, he definitely wanted it a couple years later.

[rkwright]

So the argument is that Hitler started a war that killed 50 million people over a small tiny town?

Aww Poor Hitler... he just wanted a small town! Not all of Poland... or France... or Russia... just a small town the size of Ocean Side!

Yea right...

[Lounge Daddy]

I think the article makes some very valid points. And on the one hand, this is all hindsight. But there are better ways to end things than wildly bloody wars.

[Apotheoun]

Hitler's sequel to [u]Mein Kampf[/u], which was only recently published, gives some information on his geopolitical goals.

[url="http://www.nazi.org.uk/political%20pdfs/HitlerSecondBook.pdf"][u]Zweites Buch[/u][/url]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='03 September 2009 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1252005722' post='1960422']
Hitler's sequel to [u]Mein Kampf[/u], which was only recently published, gives some information on his geopolitical goals.

[url="http://www.nazi.org.uk/political%20pdfs/HitlerSecondBook.pdf"][u]Zweites Buch[/u][/url]
[/quote]

Gosh I didn't know Hitler wrote a sequel. I hope its better than the sequel to Grease.

[dauntingknight]

Why, was Hitler going after only "true blooded Germans" in Germany when he was not a true German himself.

[Saint Therese]

For Hitler, war was a means to achieving total power. His goal was the complete subjugation of all European peoples.