Yoga

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='01 September 2009 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1251834537' post='1959483']
If a stretch into the Vishnu pose, am being faithful to my Christianity?

If I stretch into Half Lord of Fishes Pose?

http://yoga.about.com/od/yogaposes/a/seatspinaltwist.htm

Stretching like Yoga, probably fine. I would say Yoga cannot be devoid of its religious meaning per se.
[/quote]
I would say it can. A stretch or pose has no intrinsic spiritual meaning. If the body can move that way, then it could long before spiritual meaning was attached to it.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='01 September 2009 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1251835511' post='1959492']
I would say it can. A stretch or pose has no intrinsic spiritual meaning. If the body can move that way, then it could long before spiritual meaning was attached to it.
[/quote]

I think that I can agree, because it is obvious, that the movement of the body into a position of which stretches the muscles and may be similar to a yoga pose will not be yoga by its accidental similarity,[u] but to do yoga is practice a religion[/u]... even though it is pagan religion, albeit a really open and relativistic one.

On a different point, and I do not mean to disagree with you in particular, but I would like to add that the body has theological meaning in every action it does, including non yoga stretching.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='01 September 2009 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1251836176' post='1959497']
I think that I can agree, because it is obvious, that the movement of the body into a position of which stretches the muscles and may be similar to a yoga pose will not be yoga by its accidental similarity,[u] but to do yoga is practice a religion[/u]... even though it is pagan religion, albeit a really open and relativistic one.

On a different point, and I do not mean to disagree with you in particular, but I would like to add that the body has theological meaning in every action it does, including non yoga stretching.
[/quote]
In people's defense, "doing yoga" as it is referred to in current usage rarely means to perform the traditional spiritual exercises. I would agree that doing traditional yoga is practicing religion. Modern yoga exercise is divorced from that spirituality, if you are just doing the motions.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='01 September 2009 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1251836176' post='1959497']
On a different point, and I do not mean to disagree with you in particular, but I would like to add that the body has theological meaning in every action it does, including non yoga stretching.
[/quote]
Every action? I would only attach theological meaning to movements that are done intentionally as a form of religious ritual (e.g., making the sign of the cross during prayer or as an act of blessing, or performing a greater metania during the Byzantine liturgy).

Edited September 1, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Shpout]

[quote name='CrossCuT' date='31 August 2009 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1251746985' post='1958948']
Woah suddenly alot of posts!

I guess Im just confused now if taking part in Yoga with no intention of following the medtation to self god is ok or not.
Maybe Im just dense.
[/quote]

lol, i feel the same at the moment!

[Shpout]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='31 August 2009 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1251749308' post='1958963']
Yoga is a part of Eastern religion. It's ridiculous to say, well, I don't follow the religion, I just like the exercise. It's not exercise!

That would be as silly as a non-Catholic saying, well, I don't believe in Catholicism. I just like genuflecting and bowing and kneeling and making the sign of the cross for the exercise. Yeah. Ok. Except it isn't exercise.

Seriously, the people making all the money off of selling yoga mats to the west are laughing at our idiocy.

Yoga is dangerous. Whether or not you are intending to partake in its spirituality by doing so, you are.
[/quote]
ok, so how is it dangerous? that's where my question comes in really...
do we (as Catholics) believe that by putting our body in a certain position we open something in our selves? is that what chakras do or whatnot?

[cmotherofpirl]

Exercising the body is exercising the body. I can stretch while I'm planning my shopping list, it is certainly not spiritual unlesss you DELIBERATELY make it so.

[Selah]

[quote]ok, so how is it dangerous? that's where my question comes in really...
do we (as Catholics) believe that by putting our body in a certain position we open something in our selves? is that what chakras do or whatnot? [/quote]



Here's what chakras are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra

And many Catholics believe that it becomes focused on Self. While that may be true, it is important to care for onself's physical and spiritual well being. If not, how can you expect to care for another?

[Shpout]

[quote name='StColette' date='31 August 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1251747526' post='1958950']
This topic was discussed to death (meaning the thread was eventually closed because we were all going in circles) but it could be a good read for those interested.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=66377&hl=Yoga&st=0
[/quote]


sorry i brought it back....

[Shpout]

one more question...
i have noticed that in kung fu (and tai chi) you often see poses that look similar to yoga... does that make doing kung fun bad? there is a lot of spirituality behind kung fu isnt there?

i think what i have a hard time with is that physical positions can have spiritual (and neurological) effects, i dont get it

and would pilates be "ok" because they use some of the yoga "poses" but without the "religiou" componant to it?

i have to say i really agree with this (from an old topic):
Aloysius:
"I think it is disrespectful to hindu culture. We wrench these things out of their context in typical western fashion and either follow their spiritual beliefs as well in New Age ways (which is actually respectful to hindu culture, but not an option for a Christian) or we declare that we can use their rituals with no spiritual consequence, as if it was nothing more than another way of excercise like stretching or jogging. To me, that is terribly disrespectful to their beleifs"

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Shpout' date='02 September 2009 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1251846297' post='1959584']
and would pilates be "ok" because they use some of the yoga "poses" but without the "religiou" componant to it?
[/quote]
Obviously I'm no expert, but I really see nothing wrong with Pilates. Pilates was developed to strengthen the core muscles, and it is also good for sciatic pain (speaking from experience). As far as I know, Joseph Pilates did not seek to just take some things from yoga and divorce it from the religious practice, but focused on what breathing and exercises would best strengthen the core muscles and help the spine. I've never had a Pilates class that taught the people to focus on the inner self or whatnot. The one yoga class I attended did focus on that, though I know there are most likely yoga classes out there which do not focus on the inner self and such.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='01 September 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1251836716' post='1959504']
Every action? I would only attach theological meaning to movements that are done intentionally as a form of religious ritual (e.g., making the sign of the cross during prayer or as an act of blessing, or performing a greater metania during the Byzantine liturgy).
[/quote]

I am surprised that an Easterner seems to think that there is not significance to every action. It seems that the East, at least in my experience, does a much better job of emphasizing that our lives are an extension of the liturgy.

“There is no neutral ground in the universe; every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan” ~C.S. Lewis

"Rejoice always, never cease praying..." 1 Thess 5:17-18

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='02 September 2009 - 07:01 AM' timestamp='1251896493' post='1959820']
I am surprised that an Easterner seems to think that there is not significance to every action. It seems that the East, at least in my experience, does a much better job of emphasizing that our lives are an extension of the liturgy.

“There is no neutral ground in the universe; every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counter-claimed by Satan” ~C.S. Lewis

"Rejoice always, never cease praying..." 1 Thess 5:17-18
[/quote]
In my post I did not deny that every bodily action has significance; instead, I simply asked a question, and then said that I would only attach theological meaning to bodily movements that also involved religious intent.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 September 2009 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1251916417' post='1959907']
In my post I did not deny that every bodily action has significance; instead, I simply asked a question, and then said that I would only attach theological meaning to bodily movements that also involved religious intent.
[/quote]

I would not doubt that we are in agreement.

Perhaps I misunderstand you or I am not communicating clearly enough. I posit, and I think you are all Catholics agree, that every movement, because everything, has religious significance.

Of course there is a hierarchy of sacredness, something things being farther set apart or even consecrated.

[JimR-OCDS]

Hello I'm new to this forum, but not new to Catholic web forums.

It was almost predictable, that a thread on Yoga, would show up, as soon as I came into the site.

I bet Centering Prayer is mentioned in an evil light somewhere as well. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]


Anyway, I've been doing Power Yoga, for about 10 years now. There is no meditation or chanting, and yes, you focus on self, that is, your body and your breathing. Its too taxing to meditate or do anything else.

I'm still a devote Catholic Christian. It hasn't damaged my spirituality at all, but improved it, because when you feel physically good, you can also focus better on your prayer life.

Where do Yoga poses come from?


Well, anyone who practices Yoga exercises, and observes a baby, can vouch that they probably come from infants, because they do all the poses with ease. Its probable, that Yoga exercises come from the natural postures that a human body is designed to use, but we forget as we become older and our muscles and joints stiffen up.

Downward Facing Dog, a natural for babies.

Upward Facing Dog, my oldest grandson did it, but his younger brother did a different variation.

Anyway, if you do any sort of sports, or exercises at a gym with a fitness instructor, you'll end up doing some yoga poses.

As far as the caution because they come from a pagan tradition, well, we might as well through out all the forms of exercise we do, because they come from the Ancient Greeks and Romans. Catholics shouldn't participate in the Olympics, if we follow this logic.

God Bless
Jim