Homosexuality In The Priesthood.

[ortus]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='29 August 2009 - 01:23 AM' timestamp='1251501790' post='1957482']
The problem is sodomy is one of the greatest sins, one of the few that cry out for vengeance before God, an abomination.
[/quote]

Your comment seems irrelevant to the discussion. The question is about ordaining celibate gay men who by definition are not engaged in sodomy.

Edited August 29, 2009 by ortus

[MissyP89]

Celibacy is difficult, whether the one vowing it is heterosexual or homosexual. If they show themselves in formation to be able to take up that cross and follow Him, then I say let them do it.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='mamalove' date='28 August 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1251489126' post='1957374']
We have just had an incident where one of our diocesan priests was arrested in a prostitution sting. He was caught with a male prostitute. Not wanting to elaborate, lets just say he was not preaching to the young man. This apparently was not the first incident either. He had a whole separate life going on. Not wanting to lump all priests, seminarians, and those discerning who have SSA all together, because of this incident, I would say yes. They should be denied entry into the seminary or priesthood. Yet there are many, many other ways they can serve the Lord and His Church.
[/quote]

We also just had an incident where a well known priest (Fr. Cutie) was seeing a woman for three years. Does that mean then that all heterosexuals should be barred from the priesthood? Or perhaps only the hispanics?

[mamalove]

Whoa! Sorry I didn't realize this about race now

[OraProMe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='28 August 2009 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1251501790' post='1957482']
The problem is sodomy is one of the greatest sins, one of the few that cry out for vengeance before God, an abomination.
[/quote]

[mod]language - MIKolbe[/mod] It seems sensible to read the poll first before posting.

Edited August 30, 2009 by MIkolbe

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='28 August 2009 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1251495388' post='1957415']
I agree with this comment.
[/quote]

Why Rex?
I understand that homosexual priests can cause grave scandal. But anyone, regardless of orientation, can fall into sin.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='ortus' date='28 August 2009 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1251502370' post='1957493']
Your comment seems irrelevant to the discussion. The question is about ordaining celibate gay men who by definition are not engaged in sodomy.
[/quote]

It is relevant because this question was asked "Why is homosexuality being singled out as a disqualifying disorder while others are not?"

Again the reason 'homosexuality is being singled out is because sodomy is one of the greatest sins, one of the few that cry out for vengeance before God, an abomination. And because the abomination of sodomy is the act and the thought it is very dangerous to allow celibate sodomites to be priests.

Edited August 29, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Nihil Obstat]

Here's my first reaction take on it.
Men afflicted with schizophrenia are barred from the priesthood, for instance. Is this because of something they've done? No. Could they in theory always take their medication and never have an issue? Of course.
Is it worth the risk?

I haven't voted yet though; going to watch the thread closely.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='28 August 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1251511863' post='1957590']
It is relevant because this question was asked "Why is homosexuality being singled out as a disqualifying disorder while others are not?"

Again the reason 'homosexuality is being singled out is because sodomy is one of the greatest sins, one of the few that cry out for vengeance before God, an abomination. And because the abomination of sodomy is the act and the thought it is very dangerous to allow celibate sodomites to be priests.
[/quote]

But we're not talking about priests who commit sodomy. If you want to deny someone ordination because "they might commit sodomy" then with that logic you could deny someone ordination because "they might run off with a woman" or "they might leave the priesthood". There are a whole bunch of "mights" with every single person.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 August 2009 - 02:47 AM' timestamp='1251528443' post='1957673']
Here's my first reaction take on it.
Men afflicted with schizophrenia are barred from the priesthood, for instance. Is this because of something they've done? No. Could they in theory always take their medication and never have an issue? Of course.
Is it worth the risk?

I haven't voted yet though; going to watch the thread closely.
[/quote]

But homosexuality is not a mental disorder the same way schizophrenia is. The orientation itself poses no health problems so the only risk is that of sexual misconduct, which is hardly limited to homosexuals, priests or even males.

I think that's a problem with the language used in Vatican documents on the issue when they're rendered into English. "Disordered" is linked with "mental disorder" and put in the same vein as depression, schizophrenia etc. and looked at as a psychological illness rather than a "disordered inclination" that we all suffer due to original sin.

[Nihil Obstat]

How different is it, really?

We can see SSA as an inclination towards a certain type of behaviour that we find unacceptable (doubly so for a priest). Same goes for schizophrenia.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 August 2009 - 03:08 AM' timestamp='1251529713' post='1957678']
How different is it, really?
[/quote]

Symptoms of schizophrenia:
[i]They include delusions, auditory hallucinations, and thought disorder, and are typically regarded as manifestations of psychosis. Negative symptoms are so-named because they are considered to be the loss or absence of normal traits or abilities, and include features such as flat or blunted affect and emotion, poverty of speech (alogia), inability to experience pleasure (anhedonia), lack of desire to form relationships (asociality), and lack of motivation (avolition). Research suggests that negative symptoms contribute more to poor quality of life, functional disability, and the burden on others than do positive symptoms.[16][/i]

It looks pretty different.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='29 August 2009 - 01:19 AM' timestamp='1251530341' post='1957682']
Symptoms of schizophrenia:
[i]They include delusions, auditory hallucinations, and thought disorder, and are typically regarded as manifestations of psychosis. Negative symptoms are so-named because they are considered to be the loss or absence of normal traits or abilities, and include features such as flat or blunted affect and emotion, poverty of speech (alogia), inability to experience pleasure (anhedonia), lack of desire to form relationships (asociality), and lack of motivation (avolition). Research suggests that negative symptoms contribute more to poor quality of life, functional disability, and the burden on others than do positive symptoms.[16][/i]

It looks pretty different.
[/quote]
That was not what I was getting at and you know it. Please address my point honestly.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 August 2009 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1251529713' post='1957678']
We can see SSA as an inclination towards a certain type of behaviour that we find unacceptable (doubly so for a priest). Same goes for schizophrenia.
[/quote]
In case you really did miss it, this was the core of that post.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 August 2009 - 03:24 AM' timestamp='1251530655' post='1957684']
That was not what I was getting at and you know it. Please address my point honestly.
[/quote]

Sorry, I was being honest in my response. Could you please re-phrase your point for me then?

Thanks