Mandatory Schooling: Good Or Bad?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 August 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1251216110' post='1956166']
So become a blue collar worker and a self-made man.
[/quote]
Just because you don't go to a school doesn't mean you have to be a blue collar worker. That's part of the problem with the schooling system. Society leads us to believe that to become book smart, you have to go to a school. Anyone who can read can read books.

[Winchester]

Me know that, but it can fund your pursuit of knowledge along your own path.

Ever read "The Razor's Edge" by Maugham?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 August 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1251216337' post='1956169']Ever read "The Razor's Edge" by Maugham?
[/quote]
No, what's it's about?

[Winchester]

And yes, everyone who can read is capable of reading, but not necessarily comprehending. The number of judges out there who can't grasp the basic view of human rights our country was founded on is staggering.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Era Might' date='25 August 2009 - 12:08 PM' timestamp='1251216494' post='1956172']
No, what's it's about?
[/quote]
A man's search for truth. You would likely not completely agree with his conclusion, but it's a good example of what I'm talking about. And it has the best explanation of Hinduism I've seen from a Western perspective. Not that I've seen that many explanations.

[Jordanus]

While I hear what you're saying, and we as a society do tend to overdo it, I think there is one thing that institutional schooling can do for you that self-teaching can't - or at any rate doesn't seem to very often.

I've met plenty of people who were self-educated. Most of them were very smart. But very few of them had much capacity for critical thinking. I think that's because by following their own leads, they rarely if ever spent time with ideas they disagreed with. I sure know that's my inclination when on my own.

Institutional schooling forces you to read books you disagree with by authors you despise, and then write essays on them. And while one doesn't enjoy it at all, it does seem, on the whole, to give one perspective.

[Winchester]

I find that the majority of degreed individuals have little capacity for critical thought. They also tend to diminish the capability of those who are not formally educated. They also place too strong an emphasis on anecdotal evidence.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Winchester

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
can someone explain to me why a bachelor's degree is really expensive to get, but a master's isn't as expensive? you'd think it would be the other way around

[Era Might]

[quote name='Jordanus' date='25 August 2009 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1251216784' post='1956178']
While I hear what you're saying, and we as a society do tend to overdo it, I think there is one thing that institutional schooling can do for you that self-teaching can't - or at any rate doesn't seem to very often.

I've met plenty of people who were self-educated. Most of them were very smart. But very few of them had much capacity for critical thinking. I think that's because by following their own leads, they rarely if ever spent time with ideas they disagreed with. I sure know that's my inclination when on my own.

Institutional schooling forces you to read books you disagree with by authors you despise, and then write essays on them. And while one doesn't enjoy it at all, it does seem, on the whole, to give one perspective.
[/quote]
Self-education is not the only alternative to mandatory schooling. There could still be schools, for people who want to attend them. The problem is that society makes schooling mandatory, and requires you to pay thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that will get you a job. But there are other alternatives to mandatory schooling. Humans are smart. We can think of new models to replace mandatory schooling.

Also, self-education does not have to be solitary. You can still find people to engage with, and people who will challenge/help shape your thinking.

[Winchester]

If formal education were truly neccessary, we wouldn't have formal education.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='25 August 2009 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1251216968' post='1956182']
+J.M.J.+
can someone explain to me why a bachelor's degree is really expensive to get, but a master's isn't as expensive? you'd think it would be the other way around
[/quote]
They explain it when you get your master's degree.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 August 2009 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1251217442' post='1956193']
They explain it when you get your master's degree.
[/quote]
oh.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='25 August 2009 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1251216968' post='1956182']
+J.M.J.+
can someone explain to me why a bachelor's degree is really expensive to get, but a master's isn't as expensive? you'd think it would be the other way around[/quote]
My experience was totally the opposite of that. Grad school was way more expensive than undergrad. It depends, I think, on the area of study you choose.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Era Might' date='25 August 2009 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1251217018' post='1956184']
Self-education is not the only alternative to mandatory schooling. There could still be schools, for people who want to attend them. The problem is that society makes schooling mandatory, and requires you to pay thousands of dollars for a piece of paper that will get you a job. But there are other alternatives to mandatory schooling. Humans are smart. We can think of new models to replace mandatory schooling.

Also, self-education does not have to be solitary. You can still find people to engage with, and people who will challenge/help shape your thinking.
[/quote]
I'm confused about what you mean by "mandatory schooling." And, I suppose, what you mean by society.

I've been assuming you're referring to college/university, not high school (which I would say does actually approach "mandatory," at least until the age of 16). Census stats show that just over 50 percent of Americans have some college, 25 percent have finished bachelors degrees, and 9 percent have grad degrees. That does not seem mandatory to me.

All the major jobs I have held since graduating from college have required a college degree, and I couldn't have gotten them without my degree. But, I really never achieved much in the way of financial success -- far, far less than my husband, who does not have a degree (although he has some college and more than 5,000 books). Clearly anecdotal evidence, but I guess I still struggle to see a college education as being mandatory for entrance into/acceptance by society. There are jobs that require a degree, and jobs where a degree makes it easier to get in, and jobs where charm and charisma get you a lot farther than a degree.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Before I add my rant - what are the higher education statistics in the USA? The Netherlands has about 20% Bachelors (be they applied or university - there's a difference here) and 10% masters/doctorate.