Lockerbie Bomber

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='26 August 2009 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1251317108' post='1956495']
+J.M.J.+
i think it was merciful not killing him. justice would have been letting him stay in jail until he died.
[/quote]
I was about to post the exact same thing.
Mercy was not condemning him to the same fate of his victims; justice would have been having him serve the full of his temporal punishment.

[aalpha1989]

It is just to "depart from the letter of the law for some just cause".... it's another name for mercy. In other words, justice and mercy are never truly opposed, because mercy is simply a form of justice.

That being said, maybe this guy really was innocent. Maybe he is completely repentant for his sins, even if he is guilty. The fact of the matter is we don't know AND WE CAN'T. Thank God for the good that comes out of this situation. Let's not judge something we have no authority to (because we don't know the ins and outs of the case or of the man).

[CatherineM]

I understand that objection to this has caused the cancellation of the Duke of York's visit to Libya next month. I find it interesting though that this release happened a month before he was to make a visit as a trade envoy.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='26 August 2009 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1251342694' post='1956801']
It is just to "depart from the letter of the law for some just cause".... it's another name for mercy. In other words, justice and mercy are never truly opposed, because mercy is simply a form of justice.

That being said, maybe this guy really was innocent. Maybe he is completely repentant for his sins, even if he is guilty. The fact of the matter is we don't know AND WE CAN'T. Thank God for the good that comes out of this situation. Let's not judge something we have no authority to (because we don't know the ins and outs of the case or of the man).
[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
here's what Archbishop Dolan had to say:
[quote]AP Scotland's decision to release convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi was a mistake that will cause more pain for relatives of the victims and potentially encourage other terrorists , New York religious leaders said Tuesday.

Archbishop Timothy Dolan, the leader of New York's 2 million Catholics, said it was "a sad and perplexing mistake " to free al-Megrahi from his life sentence in a Scottish prison.

"While as a follower of Jesus Christ I believe in mercy, I also believe that mercy must always be tempered with justice ," the Archbishop said in a statement. " Mercy can be demonstrated in ways other than by releasing a man responsible for so much pain, suffering, and death. Those who lost loved ones also deserve mercy and justice . Finally we must consider that the release of this man could encourage others to engage in similar acts of terrorism in the future which would be a tragic result."[/quote]

[ortus]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='27 August 2009 - 07:28 PM' timestamp='1251394106' post='1956901']

AP Scotland's decision to release convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi was a mistake that will cause more pain for relatives of the victims and potentially encourage other terrorists , New York religious leaders said Tuesday.
Archbishop Timothy Dolan, the leader of New York's 2 million Catholics, said it was "a sad and perplexing mistake " to free al-Megrahi from his life sentence in a Scottish prison.
"While as a follower of Jesus Christ I believe in mercy, I also believe that mercy must always be tempered with justice ," the Archbishop said in a statement. " Mercy can be demonstrated in ways other than by releasing a man responsible for so much pain, suffering, and death. Those who lost loved ones also deserve mercy and justice . Finally we must consider that the release of this man could encourage others to engage in similar acts of terrorism in the future which would be a tragic result."
[/quote]

The difference between the statements about the compassionate release between the Archbishop of Glasgow and the Archbishop of Glasgow is very interesting. To me it encapsulates the fundamentally different approaches to Criminal Justice issues (as well as most social issues)in the US and the British Isles. I've lived in both countries and am still regularly surprised by the differences in the way they approach things.

Foe example, some of the comments on this thread have hinted that if al-Megrahi had been tried in a US court he would have been given the death penalty. I understand the reasons why people say that. However, the idea of reintroducing capital punishment in the UK is unthinkable to most British people. Sure, some people suggest it from time to time but they are viewed as cranks and most people I know in the UK cannot understand why a civilised country like the US can still be executing people.

It's a basic difference in mindsets and within that context I can see why the response to the release has been so different on both sides of the Atlantic.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ortus' date='27 August 2009 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1251396960' post='1956930']
Foe example, some of the comments on this thread have hinted that if al-Megrahi had been tried in a US court he would have been given the death penalty. I understand the reasons why people say that. However, the idea of reintroducing capital punishment in the UK is unthinkable to most British people. Sure, some people suggest it from time to time but they are viewed as cranks and most people I know in the UK cannot understand why a civilised country like the US can still be executing people.

It's a basic difference in mindsets and within that context I can see why the response to the release has been so different on both sides of the Atlantic.
[/quote]
I don't understand why a civilized country live the UK doesn't execute criminals for capital offenses, so yes that is the basic difference. Americans can see it as a loss of moral fiber on the Brits part.

[ortus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='27 August 2009 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1251404783' post='1956979']
I don't understand why a civilized country live the UK doesn't execute criminals for capital offenses, so yes that is the basic difference. Americans can see it as a loss of moral fiber on the Brits part.
[/quote]

Yes that's my point. In the US (or in the majority of States) execution is seen as not only permissible but a just logical penalty and I guess some people see European revulsion of it as a naive lack of moral fibre. Whereas in the UK (and most of Europe), Capital Punishment is seen as uncivilised barbarism and people find it hard to understand why the US hasn't outgrown it.

There is a fundamental difference of mindset and you find it mirrored in almost all areas of social policy. I recall the old saying that the US and UK are two countries divided by a common language.

[KnightofChrist]

Here is an example were being 'too compassionate' is a sign of weakness. Similar to give a mouse a cookie, he was shown '[i]compassion[/i]' and not justly put to death, now he has been shown more '[i]compassion[/i]' and set free and returned home a [i]hero[/i].

Completely outlawing the death plenty is weakness, and a reward for the wicked.

[kavalamyself]

I don't think he should have been released. I'm sure the prison would have dealt with him compassionately as he died from cancer. No reason to return home, and very insensitive for Libya to greet him as a hero.

My former Novice Mistress, Mother Luke, used to say, "The Lord will prevail." That often comforts me when I think of all the bad things that happen to people. All the people who went through the deaths of their children/loved ones only to see this guy released, it must be hard.

My prayers are with all victims of violence, including those who have suffered violence through language, rumours, gossip, slander and libel. Violence is never the answer and I personally do not think that being in jail for a major bombing is violent. Justice.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='ortus' date='27 August 2009 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1251412061' post='1957051']
Yes that's my point. In the US (or in the majority of States) execution is seen as not only permissible but a just logical penalty and I guess some people see European revulsion of it as a naive lack of moral fibre. Whereas in the UK (and most of Europe), Capital Punishment is seen as uncivilised barbarism and people find it hard to understand why the US hasn't outgrown it.

There is a fundamental difference of mindset and you find it mirrored in almost all areas of social policy. I recall the old saying that the US and UK are two countries divided by a common language.
[/quote]

Exactly. I believe if you deliberately take an innocent life, you forfeit your own life in return.
This was basic Catholic teaching when I grew up.

[Lil Red]

btw, it sounds like he should not have been released
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-16/world/uk.lockerbie.mistake_1_lockerbie-bomber-prisoner-transfer-agreement-bp?_s=PM:WORLD

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1251310315' post='1956384']
He was in Libyan intelligence and head of security for their airline. The clothes in the suitcase that contained the bomb were traced to him somehow.
[/quote]

True, and he was supposed to have personally expedited the container through security and for some odd reason was not on the plane?

ed

[MithLuin]

It seems to me that if there were some question of his guilt, an appeal would have been the way to handle it. Allowing someone with a life sentence to go home because they are dying sounds...odd. Isn't the idea of a life sentence that you die in jail? Or is that only for people who die suddenly of heart attacks and the like? Yes, he has a terminal illness. But, you know, we're all gonna die sooner or later. Something about this whole deal seems...fishy...to me. I don't know if BP is involved or not, but I seriously doubt it was simply compassion that allowed a notorious criminal to go home.

Anyway, he certainly survived quite some time after his terminal diagnosis. He's made it nearly 2 years now.....

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1304123054' post='2234832']
It seems to me that if there were some question of his guilt, an appeal would have been the way to handle it. Allowing someone with a life sentence to go home because they are dying sounds...odd. Isn't the idea of a life sentence that you die in jail? Or is that only for people who die suddenly of heart attacks and the like? Yes, he has a terminal illness. But, you know, we're all gonna die sooner or later. Something about this whole deal seems...fishy...to me. I don't know if BP is involved or not, but I seriously doubt it was simply compassion that allowed a notorious criminal to go home.

Anyway, he certainly survived quite some time after his terminal diagnosis. He's made it nearly 2 years now.....
[/quote]

Ironically a condition of his release was that he was not allowed to appeal the courts decision, beyond his release. Many of the families, as people have said here, do not believe that he did it but rather that he was a scapegoat. Just the fact that his conviction came so late is evidence in and of itself, particularly if you examined the supposed "evidence". After his release, he still insisted upon his innocence and even posted documentation proof online that he believed was proof of his innocence.

[CatherineM]

The US is asking the new Libyan government, hours old at this point, to extradite the bomber to the US to stand trial.