Government Health Care

[picchick]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='03 September 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1252029425' post='1960591']
I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but there's a good reason for that, that does indeed reduce costs.
Hazardous wastes need to be disposed of in a proper manner, most of which are more labor intensive or energy consuming (i.e., incineration or similar), and consequently more costly than what is required of disposal of household wastes. As far as I am aware, the hospital will usually contract this out to their waste management provider. By increasing the volume of the hazardous wastes with rubbish that could simply be put in a landfill with all other non-hazardous wastes, this increases expenses for the hospital - costs are actually being reduced by sorting them out according to their type.
[/quote]

I understand that. My issue is the fact that instead of throwing the wrappers in just the regular trash we have to put it in a different bin. Furthermore, there is a purple can for hazardous/infectious waste wrappers. My issue with the amount of time that is spent sorting these out and buying the cans and then trying to FIND the cans. Time is money.

What happens to all the sharps in the hospital? What happens to the red boxed haz stuff? What happens to the waste we throw in the non-haz can?

This is of course all small compared to other things.

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='03 September 2009 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1252029703' post='1960593']
Abortion is considered a "convenience" by the [b][i]kool-aid hydrated masses[/i][/b].[/quote]

I heart this response.


[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='03 September 2009 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1252029703' post='1960593']
When the upper class who fuel campaigns have to wait for three hours for their flu shots, they're not going to like their candidate as much, because the candidate just made a large [i]in[/i]convenience in their life. Completely socialized health care will not/would not last in this country.
[/quote]

I agree with you in theory here, but I am afraid that the big money will always find a way to circumvent the system. It usually does. The upper echelon of society in large socialist/communist/Marxist societies didn't/don't have to depend on the same systems that the plebeian classes did/do.


[quote name='Slappo' date='04 September 2009 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1252085948' post='1960858']
Government plays a big big role in health care already...

for instance, the fact that an emergency room cannot refuse you care... that is government. There already is national health care.
[/quote]

I agree with you, but I do think there is a big distinction between governmental involvement in the legislation/process aspect of health care and its active involvement in the production of health care as a product. Right now, at least outside the Medicare/Medicaid system, the government still does not own the means of production of health care. However, a "public option" certainly blurs that line. This is where the line between capitalism and socialism starts to break down.

There is a shocking lack of education about governmental style and the foundation of our country in this nation and it leads people to look to governmental involvement in activities that, frankly, are constitutionally outside the purview of the federal government. These are not enumerated powers constitutionally speaking. The majority of this authority should rightly lie with the state and local authorities, but our citizenry is so sadly and poorly educated that most Americans haven't the slightest idea what our government should actually be able to do. We have traversed a long and treacherous road away from our founding and into a radical experiment with a mishmosh of other governmental theories that have all failed. I grieve for my country.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='03 September 2009 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1252029703' post='1960593']
Yes, but the issues are very separate to many people. Abortion is considered a "convenience" by the kool-aid hydrated masses. When the upper class who fuel campaigns have to wait for three hours for their flu shots, they're not going to like their candidate as much, because the candidate just made a large [i]in[/i]convenience in their life. Completely socialized health care will not/would not last in this country.
[/quote]

That's why we won't have completely socialized healthcare system. Canada has a private system and there's doubt we would too, only without so many of the restrictions that private Canadian providers contend with.

To play a little devil's advocate here, one worthy argument that I've heard is simply the example of other services that contribute to our nation's welfare that are provided by both public and private parties. Truth is, healthcare is already such an example, but there's also education, mail and package delivery, transportation (highways, airports, Amtrak, mass transit), libraries, not to mention most parks and recreation areas. For the most part, these are all provided and sustained largely from public funds or private donations administered by public agencies, and they do a pretty good job without a direct profit motive. The problem in healthcare is accountability: how to ensure necessary care is provided and affordable (both for individuals and taxpayers/government).

What say ye?

[Slappo]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='04 September 2009 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1252099973' post='1960961']
I agree with you in theory here, but I am afraid that the big money will always find a way to circumvent the system. It usually does. The upper echelon of society in large socialist/communist/Marxist societies didn't/don't have to depend on the same systems that the plebeian classes did/do.
[/quote]

This is not true. The cultural revolution in China, which was a communist movement didn't care how rich you were it still threw you into the system. If anything, the rich were hit even harder then the poor. Many of the rich were even killed, and it was because of their wealth that they were persecuted above all.


[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='04 September 2009 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1252099973' post='1960961']
I agree with you, but I do think there is a big distinction between governmental involvement in the legislation/process aspect of health care and its active involvement in the production of health care as a product. Right now, at least outside the Medicare/Medicaid system, the government still does not own the means of production of health care. However, a "public option" certainly blurs that line. This is where the line between capitalism and socialism starts to break down.

There is a shocking lack of education about governmental style and the foundation of our country in this nation and it leads people to look to governmental involvement in activities that, frankly, are constitutionally outside the purview of the federal government. These are not enumerated powers constitutionally speaking. The majority of this authority should rightly lie with the state and local authorities, but our citizenry is so sadly and poorly educated that most Americans haven't the slightest idea what our government should actually be able to do. We have traversed a long and treacherous road away from our founding and into a radical experiment with a mishmosh of other governmental theories that have all failed. I grieve for my country.
[/quote]

I agree completely. However, the poll says "should the government play any roll in health care" And they already do without playing a direct roll by means of a national health care system.

[Apotheoun]

An example of Obama care:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_70d-KVe4[/media]

[mommas_boy]

I voted yes, but with two caveats:

[list=1]
[*]The general public should have the choice to opt out of (or maybe even have to opt into) the program in favor of private insurances if they so choose.
[*]No monies paid by the general public should go toward the funding of abortions. Want "choice" Planned Parenthood? So do I. I want to be able to choose whether or not my money funds abortion.
[/list]

That said, I think that government health care, done properly, fills a very important need in society. There are, at this moment, people who are too wealthy to qualify for Medicare, yet also too poor to be able to afford their own health care. Government Health Care could fulfill this need. Persons able to afford private insurance should have the freedom to choose to do so.

[Apotheoun]

I have not voted in the poll because the poll question is too vaguely worded.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Slappo' date='05 September 2009 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1252184932' post='1961390']
This is not true. The cultural revolution in China, which was a communist movement didn't care how rich you were it still threw you into the system. If anything, the rich were hit even harder then the poor. Many of the rich were even killed, and it was because of their wealth that they were persecuted above all.[/quote]

I think Marie-Therese might have been referring to the priviledged classes that existed in both Communist China and Russia. The revolutions pushed out of the way those who were wealthy, but the power of the Communist Party and government influence attracted others who took their place with Party connections, education, or other influence to live very comfortably largely outside the Communist economic regime.

Edited September 9, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[N/A Gone]

Feed the poor, heal the sick. Screw the politics.

[rachael]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='09 September 2009 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1252553575' post='1964242']
Feed the poor, heal the sick. Screw the politics.
[/quote]
Yes. We try to make sure everyone has a basic education, why not healthcare?

[Apotheoun]

Evidently someone didn't like the Star Trek video. I thought it was rather funny.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='05 September 2009 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1252195307' post='1961455']
An example of Obama care:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_70d-KVe4[/media]
[/quote]

That death panel freaked. me. out.

[mvi18th]

I voted yes - but wish there had been more options. I would like to see it available to those who can't afford it due to their lack of pay - not as a bailout because they have overspent on luxury items.

The Post Office was doing well until Congress started limiting its funds and how it could compete against other companies like FedEx and UPS and at the same time mandate some pretty awesome retirement and benefits packages. This really highlights some of the crazy government thinking that can happen sometimes.

I grew up on Socialized Healthcare here in America, as a Military Brat. While my father didn't have to pay a dime, it was not nearly as good as what my friends in the Civilian world got. It hasn't gotten any better over the years at all. We also have the VA which is supposed to take care of our veterans, yet every month you see something in the news about how bad it is. I have a friend that takes his father to the local VA hospital every other month and never gets the same doctor. This is the type of healthcare the government currently runs - and scares me if they try to make it for all.

[Winchester]

[quote name='mvi18th' date='11 September 2009 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1252724469' post='1965127']
I grew up on Socialized Healthcare here in America, as a Military Brat. While my father didn't have to pay a dime, it was not nearly as good as what my friends in the Civilian world got. It hasn't gotten any better over the years at all. We also have the VA which is supposed to take care of our veterans, yet every month you see something in the news about how bad it is. I have a friend that takes his father to the local VA hospital every other month and never gets the same doctor. This is the type of healthcare the government currently runs - and scares me if they try to make it for all.
[/quote]
But if you add more people to the system, it will get better!

Hope!

Change!

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='09 September 2009 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1252531176' post='1963978']
I think Marie-Therese might have been referring to the priviledged classes that existed in both Communist China and Russia. The revolutions pushed out of the way those who were wealthy, but the power of the Communist Party and government influence attracted others who took their place with Party connections, education, or other influence to live very comfortably largely outside the Communist economic regime.
[/quote]


Yes, that is precisely what I was referring to. Thanks LouisvilleFan!