thessalonian Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The gates of hell have prevailed against the ELCA Lutheran Church. Gay pastors okay. http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/53859967.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aU1yDEmP:QMDCinchO7DU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I don't understand that you say the gates of Hell prevailed now, just because they ordained gay ministers. Note: I'm not trying to defend that gay ministers should be ordained, but seriously - ministers of what? Of a heretical, already distorted sect of Christianity. They're no more validly ordained than you or I are. Edited August 22, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='21 August 2009 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1250900730' post='1954078'] Note: I'm not trying to defend that gay ministers should be ordained, but seriously - ministers of what? Of a heretic[ical], already distorted sect of Christianity. They're no more validly ordained than you or I are. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 The Catholic Church recognizes the Lutherans as Christian, errors asside. The Catechism tells us that many of them are not at fault for the errors of their denominations. So that they are ordained or not ordained is not the issue. To the degree that they were joined to the Church of Christ, the promise of Matt 16 applied. But they have taken a huge step away from Christ's Church. In my mind a step that brings them outside being called Christian for they do not know Christ if they have taken this step. True enough they are not ordained and they are not really ordained. But they were a Christian denomination. I am not sure you can say that anymore because they have gone so far over the line on morality. Futher the homosexual battle has been lost. Eventually most of the conservatives will leave. Further if you get the message of the book of Judges, the people go the way the leaders go and so the Lutheran denomination will continue to deteriorate. God does honor protestants who keep his commands. This Lutheran branch no longer is and it will suffer the consequences. But I won't quibble if you don't like my using the passage. That's fine. How about "a house divided cannot stand." This is a huge rift and as I said the leaders now will bring about the complete downfall of the denomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I disagree with your assertion that this act among the rest of the ELCA's heretical acts makes them no longer worthy of being called Christian. They still have sacramental baptism, which alone makes them adopted sons of God and Christians. Formally a member of the ELCA and having considered seminary there, I understand why they have taken this step. This has been their attitude for a long, long time, since before I became Lutheran when I was 6, but like the true church the wheels there turn slowly in making these decisions. They see homosexuality no more a sin than self-impurity. Edited August 22, 2009 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 It is disheartening to see a weakening of the Christian forces on moral code. It used to be if you were at least Christian, you could be counted on to oppose contraception, and homosexuality. We are losing allies. However, I continue to take heart in Matthew 16:18 [quote]"As Luther taught us, Scripture does not have a wax nose," said the Rev. Ryan Mills, a Louisiana delegate. "It cannot be twisted into anything we want it to say. But that's just what we're doing with these following recommendations." [/quote] Someone sees some light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' date='21 August 2009 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1250902700' post='1954094'] But I won't quibble if you don't like my using the passage. That's fine. How about "a house divided cannot stand." This is a huge rift and as I said the leaders now will bring about the complete downfall of the denomination. [/quote] I agree with you, but I see the downfall of the Lutheran denomination as a good thing. It would lead people to realize that it was obviously not the True Church, and cause people to seek the Truth...and we both know there's only one place they can find that. They already endorsed abortion and abortionists, which is just as bad as endorsing homosexuality. Any action that brings people back to the Church can't be all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' date='21 August 2009 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1250902700' post='1954094'] The Catholic Church recognizes the Lutherans as Christian, errors asside. The Catechism tells us that many of them are not at fault for the errors of their denominations. So that they are ordained or not ordained is not the issue. To the degree that they were joined to the Church of Christ, the promise of Matt 16 applied. But they have taken a huge step away from Christ's Church. In my mind a step that brings them outside being called Christian for they do not know Christ if they have taken this step. True enough they are not ordained and they are not really ordained. But they were a Christian denomination. I am not sure you can say that anymore because they have gone so far over the line on morality. Futher the homosexual battle has been lost. Eventually most of the conservatives will leave. Further if you get the message of the book of Judges, the people go the way the leaders go and so the Lutheran denomination will continue to deteriorate. God does honor protestants who keep his commands. This Lutheran branch no longer is and it will suffer the consequences. But I won't quibble if you don't like my using the passage. That's fine. How about "a house divided cannot stand." This is a huge rift and as I said the leaders now will bring about the complete downfall of the denomination. [/quote] The Lutheran views on justification are just as bad as their views on sodomy, and yet we have considered them Christians for the 500 years that they have held those views on justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='21 August 2009 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1250905404' post='1954106'] The Lutheran views on justification are just as bad as their views on sodomy, and yet we have considered them Christians for the 500 years that they have held those views on justification. [/quote] What are you trying to do. Have a silly debate with me. I don't really care if you like my statement or not. The Lutherans to me have crossed a line in which they have endorsed a very grave evil. If you want to quibble about my words go waste somebody elses time. Your not supposed to debate Catholics on this board. I've made my point and if you don't like it tuff. I found it funny tonight on the news that they still won't let a straight pastor who is not married and having sex be a pastor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='thessalonian' date='21 August 2009 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1250911698' post='1954139'] The Lutherans to me have crossed a line in which they have endorsed a very grave evil. [/quote] Lutheranism has endorsed the grave evil of heresy for centuries. It isn't anything new. Edited August 22, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Why y'all quit quibbling about how evil or not evil or whatever the Lutherans are? All Protestant sects lack the fullness of the Truth. We know that. Protestantism itself is a grave scandal. We know that. This latest development just goes to show the error of individual interpretation of Sacred Scripture, the rejection of Sacred Tradition, and the lack of a Magisterium to guide the way. We know that. Lutherans and most Prots are Christians. Quit bickering about if YOU think they are or not. I suspect there are more people in hell who claimed to be Catholic than who claimed to be Protestant. Many bear more fruit with their two sacraments than many of us do with our full seven... How 'bout instead of taking this time to bash Lutherans and Prots in general, we sing Glory to the Lord for this historical event? In one swoop, the folly of Protestantism has been exposed by the falling away of the original Prot sect from a basic immovable Christian truth. As such, this shines the light of Truth on the error of Luther's methods (many of his beefs were right, btw) and is a chance for many true Christians to open their eyes, search elsewhere for Truth, and find their way home to the Church. Glory to God! The error is brought out of the darkness into the light for the world to see! Come Holy Spirit and lead our separated brethren home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' date='21 August 2009 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1250913464' post='1954148'] How 'bout instead of taking this time to bash Lutherans and Prots in general, we sing Glory to the Lord for this historical event? In one swoop, the folly of Protestantism has been exposed by the falling away of the original Prot sect from a basic immovable Christian truth. As such, this shines the light of Truth on the error of Luther's methods (many of his beefs were right, btw) and is a chance for many true Christians to open their eyes, search elsewhere for Truth, and find their way home to the Church. Glory to God! The error is brought out of the darkness into the light for the world to see! Come Holy Spirit and lead our separated brethren home! [/quote] I was thinking the same thing. The more far out they get the more it will become clear that they don't possess the Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I was also raised in an ELCA congregation. My parents are still there and they aren't in favor of what's going on either. They aren't very open to Catholicism, but with time and prayer that can obviously change. There are also two other significant Lutheran denominations in the US: Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod. Missouri is definitely more conservative and Wisconsin probably is too. Conservative Lutherans and congregations in the ELCA (like my parent's) will probably either join of those synods or form their own separate from the ELCA. Edited August 22, 2009 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' date='21 August 2009 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1250912122' post='1954142'] Lutheranism has endorsed the grave evil of heresy for centuries. It isn't anything new. [/quote] Your like my 10 year old. Telling me over and over something that I know already. I wasn't born yesterday Junior. I was driving a car while you were still pooping your diapers. Edited August 22, 2009 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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