amarkich Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 It is clear that the practice of Natural Family Planning, when used within the limits of the Church, can be a valid practice, but the common usage of this practice is certainly a break with Tradition. There are many who claim that NFP can be validly used as a means of spacing children or preventing children altogether. This, however, is forbidden by the Church and cannot be practiced validly. I have created this thread more as a means of discussing the context in which NFP could be permitted rather than as a means of discussing whether or not it is valid at all because I feel that this process will be more informative for all. My question is this: what cases, if any, can NFP be used validly? There are apparently four valid reasons (including monetary, psychological, and two others), but I am unaware as to whether or not these reasons will suffice for the using of NFP (possibly with the exclusion of extreme monetary cases), but because I am not completely educated as to the orthodox view on this issue, I am posing this as a question more than a statement. All comments are welcome. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Using NFP is only sinful if you misuse it. For example, if another child would put undue financial burdens on you, it would be ok to use NFP. But if you just wanted a new car, that wouldn't be ok. The Catechism says that we may use NFP for "just" reasons. As to whether or not a couple has just reasons for using it is something that would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 [quote name='Dave' date='Apr 2 2004, 02:31 PM'] Using NFP is only sinful if you misuse it. For example, if another child would put undue financial burdens on you, it would be ok to use NFP. But if you just wanted a new car, that wouldn't be ok. The Catechism says that we may use NFP for "just" reasons. As to whether or not a couple has just reasons for using it is something that would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis. [/quote] Very well stated. The fact that NFP is always open to life makes it objectively pleasing to God and His Church (just like the Bible is objectively pleasing to God - it's His written Word). But just as the Bible can be abused to promote / support heretical views, so too can NFP be used to a sinfull end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Doing what is natural, will of coarse naturaly space you childern. Also if it does not (by it I mean proper breast feeding) NFP can still work to give women enough time between Childern to recover. After all a healthy pregnancy is just and important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted April 2, 2004 Author Share Posted April 2, 2004 As for the time during breast feeding, would performing the marital act be permissible if the woman is unable to become pregnant? Likewise, it has been condemned that NFP is allowed to be used for spacing children. If a woman is worried about recovering fully it would seem that abstinence would aid in this process, so NFP would not be necessary. The fact that it is natural does not seem to be such a concern but rather that it is a break with Tradition as to the [i]purpose[/i] of sex and Marriage, namely procreation. NFP does not support procreation, only natural law. The act of attempting to lessen the chances of a pregnancy, or to prevent it altogether, however, seems to be a break in Tradition concerning the purpose of marriage ("Be fruitful and multiply"). God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 (edited) The Church has already stated that NFP can be used to avoid pregnancy, so long as the reasons are valid. So it would not be breaking with Tradition. For instance, my wife and I do not have insurance at this point and we don't have the money on hand to adequately feed, clothe, give medical attention to, or adequately take care of the child. Due to finances we are using NFP only for a short time so when we do have a child we can properly care for it. When we are ready for a child, we will use NFP to achieve pregnancy, which should be its main use. Edited April 2, 2004 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 [quote]As for the time during breast feeding, would performing the marital act be permissible if the woman is unable to become pregnant?[/quote] Many women do experience a time of infertility while they are breastfeeding, but it is variable for everyone. I know several people who have gotten pregnant while breastfeeding. It is permissible to perform the marital act during times of natural infertility. Otherwise, couples unable to have children or couples in which the woman is past the age of menopause would never be able to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 I've never been able to get a straight answer to this question. The closest I got was when Joe Scheidler's son said he used NFP in order that the birth of his child would not occur while he was on a pilgrimage to Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhred Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Here are some relevant sections from [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html"][i]Humanae Vitae[/i] (THIS IS AN HTML LINK!!!)[/url]: [quote]11. The sexual activity, in which husband and wife are intimately and chastely united with one another, through which human life is transmitted, is, as the recent Council recalled, "noble and worthy.'' [b]It does not, moreover, cease to be legitimate even when, for reasons independent of their will, it is foreseen to be infertile.[/b] For its natural adaptation to the expression and strengthening of the union of husband and wife is not thereby suppressed. The fact is, as experience shows, that new life is not the result of each and every act of sexual intercourse. God has wisely ordered laws of nature and the incidence of fertility in such a way that successive births are already naturally spaced through the inherent operation of these laws. The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life.[/quote] [quote]16. Now as We noted earlier (no. 3), some people today raise the objection against this particular doctrine of the Church concerning the moral laws governing marriage, that human intelligence has both the right and responsibility to control those forces of irrational nature which come within its ambit and to direct them toward ends beneficial to man. Others ask on the same point whether it is not reasonable in so many cases to use artificial birth control if by so doing the harmony and peace of a family are better served and more suitable conditions are provided for the education of children already born. To this question We must give a clear reply. The Church is the first to praise and commend the application of human intelligence to an activity in which a rational creature such as man is so closely associated with his Creator. But she affirms that this must be done within the limits of the order of reality established by God. [b]If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained.[/b] Neither the Church nor her doctrine is inconsistent when she considers it lawful for married people to take advantage of the infertile period but condemns as always unlawful the use of means which directly prevent conception, even when the reasons given for the later practice may appear to be upright and serious. In reality, these two cases are completely different. In the former the married couple rightly use a faculty provided them by nature. In the latter they obstruct the natural development of the generative process. It cannot be denied that in each case the married couple, for acceptable reasons, are both perfectly clear in their intention to avoid children and wish to make sure that none will result. But it is equally true that it is exclusively in the former case that husband and wife are ready to abstain from intercourse during the fertile period as often as for reasonable motives the birth of another child is not desirable. And when the infertile period recurs, they use their married intimacy to express their mutual love and safeguard their fidelity toward one another. In doing this they certainly give proof of a true and authentic love.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamalove Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Okay, about not being able to get pregnant while breast-feeding. It's happend to me...twice. Sadly, I lost the second child very early on. So there's that myth debunked. I think NFP is a great thing, but unforunately it is being widly abused. My views about this come from my experiences in Engaged Encounter. About 60% of the discussions were about how to use NFP to avoid pregnancy. In fact, both of the couples that led the weekend had used birth control in the past and said "NFP just works better." My husband and I were appalled. NFP was being crammed down our throats. We felt so out of place the whole weekend becuase we had decided to just put everything in God's hands (the way it should be). Never once was that mentioned as an option. It seems to me that NFP has become birth control without the pill. I know that sounds harsh, but I have seen so many people I know and love who don't fall under any of the categories of acceptible use that follow it religously. I'm not saying everyone should get pregnant on their wedding night like I did, but if there are no financial, psychological, or physical reasons that it should be avoided, why use NFP? Another thing that bugs me are the people who use it to space their children, and they space them like 5-6 years apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Infertility during breastfeeding usually lasts until you introduce any food to baby or reduce your feedings. NFP like anything else, can be abused. Intention is everything. Even bad NFP is better than contraception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamalove Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 I'm sure for most breast-feeding mothers infertility ends with a change in feeding patterns, but not for me. No change, and I still got pregnant while nurising my first child and my second. Talk about being fertile!! I my view, contraception has made innocent babies the "enemy." People talk about the need to be "protected" from getting pregnant. It seems to me that, lately, NFP is being marketed as a form of contraception under this same mentality. Pretty much all of the Catholic people that I have talked to about NFP aren't even aware that the Church has restrictions on the use of NFP. Don't get me wrong, I think NFP is a beautiful thing. But the church needs to keep the faithful reminded of the restrictions. Right now I hear people saying "Well the Church still won't let women use contraception, but you can use NFP. It works just as good." We need to change the mentality. You are right, intention is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 I think the bottom line is that you are to be open to the gift of a child. There is still abstinence in marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiannii Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 We should leave it up to God. I think a lot of us still have doubt in God's Will. He will never give us too much to handle. If we are in a situation where we think we can't afford another child, surley it should be left up to God, seeing he knows everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 If a couple has well formed consciences, and make an act of discernment with the grace of their Sacrament, they are not abusing NFP, and its hard for an outsider to judge this and its not their place really. Ideally a couple's decision to abstain periodically is fundamentally an act of love. Love of God, each other and their family, as good stewards of the gifts and resposibilities God has given them. It is fidelity to their calling, not based on selfish motives or principles contrary to the moral law. And periodic abstinence is hardly contrary to tradition. Artificial contraception provides a license to have sterile sex at will with no responsibility or consequences. The practice of NFP requires a mutual commitment, respect and fidelity and can be a profound expression of each others mutual love. Of course abuses are possible, as with anything. If NFP is approached with a contraceptive mentality the Church's teaching may not be comprehensible, and there would be an abuse. NFP should not be an end in itself, its use should correspond to the ends of marriage and the meaning of marriage, one of these being life giving love. And spouses are called to a radical generosity. Conjugal love which is the source and heart of the family is self-donative by nature and is greatly harmed by a mentality which is at enmity with the fruitful dimension of sexual love. This fecundity is perhaps the greatest expression and concretization of the meaning of human sexuality. NFP, properly discerned, does not in any way distrupt this sublime vestige, or rather image, of the Most Holy Trinity. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that NFP should not be approached in isolation from the totality of the Church's teachings on human sexuality. It is only with this foundation that NFP can be understood in a way that is not only in conformity with the moral law and the nuptial meaning of the body, but in a way that is complimentary to, and expressive of, authentic spousal union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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