One Mediator- Jesus, Why All The Hype About Mary?

[Christopher Brandon]

okay now, wheres that penny slot? *searches around* oh! there it is, now I can put in my 2 cents.

Saints are apointed by the church, the church is made up of man. take that however you want.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Christopher Brandon' date='17 September 2009 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1253244881' post='1968421']
okay now, wheres that penny slot? *searches around* oh! there it is, now I can put in my 2 cents.

Saints are apointed by the church, the church is made up of man. take that however you want.
[/quote]
No matter how matter-of-fact you say it, it doesn't make you any more correct.

[Selah]

I find it funny that people who use this argument have no problem asking a friend to pray.

Asking someone to pray is asking another person to go to God on your behalf. To be a mediator. With their logic, why not go to Jesus yourself instead of asking me to pray for you?

"Oh, but Mary and the saints are dead." No they aren't. They're with God and are more alive than we are right now! Why would we become separate from each other at death? If the Body of Christ is truley the Body of Christ, we can not be separated.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

Jesus tells us to behold our Mother. Behold, means to look at or contemplate.

[Christopher Brandon]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 September 2009 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1253282270' post='1968557']
No matter how matter-of-fact you say it, it doesn't make you any more correct.
[/quote]

you mean saints arn't apointed by the church? and the church, is not defined as a place where men gather in the name of God?

this is not me being hostile, this is a serious question now, I'm asking just to understand, if thats not true what is?

[Skinzo]

I think the shortest version of the reason we venerate Mary is this: Without Jesus, no Mary. Without Mary, no Jesus.
I can't remember where I heard that or even if I have it quite right.

S.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

To be correct a church is defined as a community of people or an assembly of persons. It is not a place. Two people can be communing together in the name of Christ and his true teachings and there is the Church. Hope this helps.

[Christopher Brandon]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='18 September 2009 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1253302660' post='1968734']
To be correct a church is defined as a community of people or an assembly of persons. It is not a place. Two people can be communing together in the name of Christ and his true teachings and there is the Church. Hope this helps. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif[/img]
[/quote]

right, thats what I meant, I should have known better then to use the word place. my point being that the church irreguardless is made up of man.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Christopher Brandon' date='18 September 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1253303120' post='1968739']
right, thats what I meant, I should have known better then to use the word place. my point being that the church irreguardless is made up of man.
[/quote]

But the Church is also supernatural - she is the bride of Christ. So while she is composed of human beings, she is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit from error.

[Christopher Brandon]

[quote name='Maggie' date='18 September 2009 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1253303516' post='1968744']
she is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit from error.
[/quote]

but arn't all who are faithful?

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='Christopher Brandon' date='18 September 2009 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1253303994' post='1968751']
but arn't all who are faithful?
[/quote]


Yes, but Faithfull implies alot.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

Like...is this what Jesus taught? And how can we know what Jesus taught if we dont learn from the Apostles he taught. Well we do. History shows that Jesus taught his apostles those apostles taught other disciples(Poloycarp and Ignatious of Antioch) and this chain kept continuing unto this very day.

[Christopher Brandon]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='18 September 2009 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1253305352' post='1968772']
Like...is this what Jesus taught? And how can we know what Jesus taught if we dont learn from the Apostles he taught. Well we do. History shows that Jesus taught his apostles those apostles taught other disciples(Poloycarp and Ignatious of Antioch) and this chain kept continuing unto this very day.
[/quote]

well it's as I say elsewhere, we won't know what is right and what is wrong until judgement, all we can do is have our faith and follow our heart. but at the same time I believe even the apostles teachings can have the telephone effect, like the game we used to play when we were young. the story can change as time goes on because just as God has put creatures on this earth to guide us Satan has put creatures on this earth to misslead us, and servents of the fallen one are cunning beyond belief and I have no doubt they would have little to no trouble infultraiting the church and having their way with it.

I can't say that thats happened, but that scenario is far from impossible.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

Yes, but Jesus did promise us that "you are [b]Peter[/b] and upon this [b]rock[/b] I will build my Church and the [u]gates of Hell will not prevail against it[/u]"

P.S.Greek for rock is Petra which links to Peter.

The reason this doesnt happen with the churches teachings is because they are not the churches teachings so to speak but really the Holy Spirits who is the Spirit of Christ.

[Christopher Brandon]

I do take some comfort in this.
the church being made up of Man, I believe you are right in that the Man who make up the Church cannot be affected by hell. But I don't think that the modern organizations that call themselves "church" has this same immunity >.> you know what I mean?