The Purpose Of Hell

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1250644236' post='1952303']
Virtue is a capacity that is present within each man, but it must be individually actualized for it to have any meaning.[/QUOTE]

If you are saying that a virtuous individual is one who acts virtuously then I agree.

[QUOTE]That said, hell has nothing to do with a failure to fulfill some sort of extraneous demands of God[/QUOTE]

I don't see how you say this. God demands we worship him. Love him with all our hearts, minds and souls (again, seems a bit narcissistic), and abstain from mortal sin. Amongst other things


[QUOTE]instead, hell is the experience of God received by one who -- for whatever reason -- chose to live a profligate life, which is a way of being that retards the fulfillment of his real nature.
[/quote]

Did God determine what his "real nature" was?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1250645635' post='1952320']
If you are saying that a virtuous individual is one who acts virtuously then I agree. [/quote]
Our nature has the power (δυναμις) for virtue, but one must personally energize (ἐνεργέω) the capacity for it to be realized.

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1250645635' post='1952320']
I don't see how you say this. God demands we worship him. Love him with all our hearts, minds and souls (again, seems a bit narcissistic), and abstain from mortal sin. Amongst other things[/quote]
Eastern Christians do not subscribe to the legalism of the Western Church, and so for us the worship of God is not a thing demanded of us in some legal sense; instead, it is a thing that brings our nature to fulfillment in a personal mode of being, and so it is not about fulfilling a notion of divine justice, but of bringing to completion our own personal existence.

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1250645635' post='1952320']
Did God determine what his "real nature" was?
[/quote]
Yes, God created human nature with a proper logos (λογος), but that logos (λογος) can only be fulfilled through personal activity.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Jordanus]

I agree that things are being stated rather too legalistically. Here's a way of looking at it that I find helpful:

God is the only source of happiness, joy, and peace there is. If we are close to Him, *of course* we will be perfectly happy - how could we not? And if we are far from Him, *of course* we will be miserable.

Someone who will not turn away from sin CANNOT be perfectly, truly happy. It can't be done - any more than you can pound your head against a brick wall and remain happy. To sin is to act against reality itself - in other words, God. Acting against reality never works for long, and generally hurts. God doesn't arbitrarily decide to forbid certain things; rather He tells us about the things that hurt us, that lead us away from joy.

Now, virtually all of us struggle with sin, to be sure. That's because we don't see things the way they really are. But with death, all of our excuses fade away - we see the situation the way it really is. And our fundamental choice underlying all the other choices to love God or hate Him becomes clear and irrevocable. (Again, it's irrevocable *because* things are now so clear. All the usual factors that influence our decisions will be gone, and just the naked choice will be left.)

If we love God, His grace will purify us, if needed, to love Him perfectly, and then we will be able to be one with Him in complete joy. If we hate God, He gives us our wish - to be apart from Him to the extent such a thing is possible. And that is agony, but it is agony the damned PREFER to Heaven. If they truly desired joy - that is, life with God - they would have it. It is that simple. As C. S. Lewis said, some say to God, "Thy will be done," and to others God says, "Thy will be done." And, "The doors of Hell are locked from the inside."

As for the eternity (more correctly, perpetuity) of it, that's simply due to the spiritual nature of human beings. We *can't* cease to exist, unless God uncreates us, and that is something He never does. But do realize that duration as we know it now, duration measured by clocks, probably doesn't exist after death. Duration there is measured by thought and by experience - kairos instead of chronos. The two are not the same even now - we all know how time can seem to speed up and slow down, though clocks don't. Since I doubt there's very much variety in Hell, it may be that the damned experience a timeless "stretch" of duration that all blurs together. But I don't know for sure, and I hope never to find out, by direct experience anyway!

Finally, let me just say that God commands us to love and praise Him because He knows that is what will give us the greatest joy - it is what we were made to do! Haven't you noticed that praising something is the completion and crown of the enjoyment of it? When you see a great movie, isn't the first thing you want to do to tell a friend about it? And if that's not possible, don't we go over the best parts and say, "That was amazing!"

It is truly a shame that God has to tell us to do what we were made to do, the thing that crowns our lives, but that's the Fall for you.

[perfectunion33]

To give glory to God's justice.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Jordanus' date='25 August 2009 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1251167779' post='1955865']
God is the only source of happiness, joy, and peace there is. If we are close to Him, *of course* we will be perfectly happy - how could we not?
[/quote]
I don't think Hell is a place, it's the absence of the above
[quote name='Jordanus' date='25 August 2009 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1251167779' post='1955865']
And if we are far from Him, *of course* we will be miserable.

[/quote]
We're in hell.

[perfectunion33]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='17 September 2009 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1253226231' post='1968248']
I don't think Hell is a place, it's the absence of the above

We're in hell.
[/quote]


Actually the Catechism of the Catholic Church does state that Hell is a place. Not only a place, but a state of being. My advice is to [i]"[/i]Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" (Matthew 7:13-14)

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='perfectunion33' date='18 September 2009 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1253233483' post='1968295']
Actually the Catechism of the Catholic Church does state that Hell is a place. Not only a place, but a state of being. My advice is to [i]"[/i]Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" (Matthew 7:13-14)
[/quote]
I'm aware of this. I just have difficulty with the concept of an all embracing loving God creating a place of horror to torment some of his creations for eternity. What could be worse than enduring the pains of life and missing out on an eternity in God's kingdom of love. And God doesn't sentence people to this, they have it by their own choosing thus leaving God more to be in sorrow at there loss rather than being stained by the act of inflicting torture.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='17 September 2009 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1253236288' post='1968323']
I'm aware of this. I just have difficulty with the concept of an all embracing loving God creating a place of horror to torment some of his creations for eternity. What could be worse than enduring the pains of life and missing out on an eternity in God's kingdom of love. And God doesn't sentence people to this, they have it by their own choosing thus leaving God more to be in sorrow at there loss rather than being stained by the act of inflicting torture.
[/quote]


Jesus said in the book of Matt. 25:41 "Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."
So there is a placed prepared for punishment....but I do believe you are right in saying that its the person himself who chooses where he goes. They are ashamed of themselves, proud, and too dark to embrace this all truthful, loving, forgiving GOD of light. So they plunge themselves in to darkness where they feel more at home. To them Heaven is Hell(torturous), and Hell is their Heaven(homeland).

This is all speculation and may not be the Church's outlook so take it for what it is...speculation.

[Apotheoun]

The Church does not require that a man believe that heaven and hell are spatial or geographic locations. Pope John Paul II spoke of them as "states of being."