havok579257 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1950106' date='Aug 15 2009, 09:04 PM']Call me crazy, but I don't threaten my guests with eternal damnation if they choose to not follow my rules. They might be told to leave, but if they promised to behave themselves, I'd let them visit again. Rules, I can understand. Obey. Behave. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is, "You must follow this religion or Deity to go to heaven, or you go to hell." THAT is what I don't get.[/quote] 1. God doesn't threaten people with hell. Hell s just the only other option. The same could be said if outside your house is a hoard of zombies. By not letting people into your house, are you condemning them to the zombies? No, its just when you don't allow them into your house, the zombies are what they are left with. Also, just like you, if the person agreed to follow the rules and ask for your forgiveness, he would be allowed back into God's house. 2. Its God's house, so it should be his rules. One if his rules is love him and obey him. What's so hard to grasp about that? Follow him and believe in him and you get into heaven. Why should you be allowed into heaven if your entire time on earth you refuse to believe he even exists? How is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='zunshynn' post='1950124' date='Aug 15 2009, 09:12 PM']Again, the consequences are extreme because the choice is extreme. The reason the consequences of this are greater than the consequences of a houseguest being rude to his host is because although that analogy works on some level, it is a much smaller scale.[/quote] What about the choice is extreme? [quote]God is infinite goodness... if you reject him, you are rejecting goodness itself. You are choosing not to partake of goodness. Because He IS goodness... you can't say... Well I don't want you, God, but I do want to experience some of your attributes. You can't... they're inseperable. If you don't want to follow God, that means you want to be separated from Him... that separation is Hell. He gives everyone that choice.[/quote] I still do good things. I work with abused and disabled children. I help homeless people. I sit and talk with them so they can feel a little human again, like their something more than garbage. Whatever. I'm far from perfect but I do good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1950140' date='Aug 15 2009, 09:27 PM']1. God doesn't threaten people with hell. Hell s just the only other option.[/quote] Says who? Who created heaven and hell? Who decided man whould die and upon his death he would be sentenced to one or the other for all eternity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1950309' date='Aug 16 2009, 02:06 AM']Says who? Who created heaven and hell? Who decided man whould die and upon his death he would be sentenced to one or the other for all eternity?[/quote] God created heaven and hell. Although he left the choice of where you go upon death up to us. He left it up to free will. Just like with every choice in life, there are consequences for our actions. Some good, some bad. Well this is the ultimate choice, hence the consequences are dire. Just because God created hell does not mean he sends people to it. Same as, just because I bake a cake, does not mean I forced you to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote]God created heaven and hell. Although he left the choice of where you go upon death up to us[/quote] And that is perfectly understandable, IF you act like an idiot and live your life selfish, cruel, and at the expense of others. What ISN'T is when a perfectly good person, such as Ghandi, or any other humanitarian, goes to hell because they weren't of the Christian faith. I just can't get that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Selah' date='18 August 2009 - 08:33 AM' timestamp='1250595189' post='1951810'] And that is perfectly understandable, IF you act like an idiot and live your life selfish, cruel, and at the expense of others. What ISN'T is when a perfectly good person, such as Ghandi, or any other humanitarian, goes to hell because they weren't of the Christian faith. I just can't get that at all. [/quote] God's grace is not restricted to the bounds of His Church. If a person such as Ghandi has lived a grace-filled life, it's entirely possible he's in heaven. We can't say that for a fact, however: matters of salvation are left up to God's judgement and mercy. However, keep in mind that Ghandi had his issues too. Everybody does. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," so we all need Christ to be saved, whether we profess belief in Him or otherwise, participation in the sacrifice of Christ is necessary for salvation. Maybe this is the case with Ghandi; maybe not. That's between Ghandi and God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' date='18 August 2009 - 07:33 AM' timestamp='1250595189' post='1951810'] And that is perfectly understandable, IF you act like an idiot and live your life selfish, cruel, and at the expense of others. What ISN'T is when a perfectly good person, such as Ghandi, or any other humanitarian, goes to hell because they weren't of the Christian faith. I just can't get that at all. [/quote] n/m Edited August 18, 2009 by havok579257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hell is the creation of the damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1250617864' post='1951946'] Hell is the creation of the damned. [/quote] Isn't God the only one who truly creates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='18 August 2009 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1250622252' post='1951986'] Isn't God the only one who truly creates? [/quote] It depends on what one means when using the word "create." God is not the cause of hell; rather, the damned are the cause of their own suffering. Edited August 18, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 A related thought from St.Teresa of Avila: "At death the soul instinctively knows where to go - to heaven or to hell. Those souls that go to hell go because it is, in the end, the less painful choice. Those souls that die outside of a state of grace know that it is far more painful with their ...sin to be in God's immediate presence, than to depart from God. In this way God remains ever merciful, to allow those souls who choose against Him, to depart from Him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 God is omnipresent, which means that He is present to the saints and the damned alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1250623404' post='1952002'] God is omnipresent, which means that He is present to the saints and the damned alike. [/quote] Then what is hell if not the absence of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1250625406' post='1952019'] Then what is hell if not the absence of God? [/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I believe in some trends of eastern/mystical Christianity heaven and hell are seen as one. For the saved the presence of God is paradise, for the wicked it's hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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