Hassan's Ornery Atheism Rears Its Ugly Head

[Jordanus]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='25 August 2009 - 06:11 AM' timestamp='1251205873' post='1956025']...which is why my own opinion remains the same; it will all be okay when we see God and meanwhile, through our faith, suffering may have meaning that is known (offered by the Christian for an intention) or mysterious (used by God in a non-Christian for an unknown good). But the person who suffers doesn't need to hear that. The person who suffers just needs someone's hand to hold.
[/quote]

Well said. Theology is wonderful, but that is not the time. What a suffering person needs is love. Though, if they're of the same mind as Boethius, I suppose philosophy and/or theology might be the loving thing they need! It's just that not many people are like Boethius.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='Hassan' date='14 August 2009 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1250297282' post='1949142']
I love the book of Job. It's my one favoriate books of the Old Testment.


From the standpoint of literature (And while I haven't read it in a while I don't remember the author of Job mentioning any Beatific Vision).

Outside of literature, taken as a literal theological proposal I don't know what to make of it. The God of Job doesn't seem worthy of reverence or admiration. He put's a man who on God's own accounting is morally irreproachable through hell because Satan egged him on.

That is the behavior of a capacious and cruel dictator, not a loving God.





I don't think you could really say this to the girl I mentioned. God refused to answer her prayers because he's going to make it up to her later?
[/quote]

Hey, Hassan, I will pray for this girl. You are still in my prayers. If ever she needs someone to pray with, I can pray with her, just write me or something. I'll tell you why I say this later.

[jonyelmony]

Through my adventures on the internet i met a girl from Manila who was raped repeatedly by her dad between the ages of 13 and 18 he only stopped when he left her mum at 20, but for whatever reason she is a devout Christian, it would be interesting her idea in this discussion would be enlightening as it would be free of the guilt which might come from trying to suggest that "your rape = loves". While i realise that the presence of evil turns people away from god it seems to turn them towards God in equal amounts. Were profillic Christians like Maximillian Kolbe and Mother Teresa wrong to remain faithfull?

I was listening to Immaculee tell the story about how saying the rosary saved her from the Rwandan massacre, as if there were not plenty of people who were saying the rosary before they were slaughtered it sorta suggests that God plays favourites.

[Winchester]

Maybe He does.

[Servus_Mariae]

The reality of evil in the world is exacted precisely because God is loving. This sounds ridiculous, but it is true.

God in His relational Nature, desires love from humanity. Love necessitates the ability to reject the love given. Insofar as this is the case, the rapist offered a testament to the heinousness of a rejection of the love of God (in this case by harming and dehumanizing another who bears a God given dignity...thus sacreligiously violating one whom God loves). Thus, God is not culpable of a sin of omission because of His apparent lack of action, rather the rapist is guilty of the fundamental human error of placing self before God. God allows evil to be committed: the rejection of His love. It is true that the more evil the crime the more tangible this rejection of Divine love is. It is detestable.

God loves man, and desires love in return. Allowing the tragedy of rejection is necessary but only is actualized by free will unguided by a love for God (directly or indirectly).

Sem C.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Hassan' date='15 August 2009 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1250297282' post='1949142']
I love the book of Job. It's my one favoriate books of the Old Testment.


I don't think you could really say this to the girl I mentioned. God refused to answer her prayers because he's going to make it up to her later?
[/quote]

What will eventually outweigh a traumatic event and what is a Good consoling piece of councilling to the victim of a traumatic event seldom have anything in common. Telling a mother who has just witnessed her child splattered on the highway that it is now with God is not a very supportive statement. When I was enduring a particularly agonising time in my life, Jesus told me that it will seem miniscule compared to what will be in paradise. Because it came from someone of authority and love it was consoling but if anybody else had made that statement, I probably would have belted them one.

I understand the story of Job, whether he existed or if it is a parable about us, is meant to teach that Satan said to God "of course Job loves you because you give him everything he desires." God had to concede that if Man was to have free choice then everyone had to be subjected to Satan's cruelty and taunts. His promise was that our burdens will not be too great for our strength. Was the person able to come to terms with her ordeal or did it destroy her spiritually beyond redemption forever. Our reactions would be ones of horror at how a person could do such a horrible thing to another person and we would be full of compassion but God ultimately would know that if he intervened then by all fairness he would have to prevent all rapes and so forth which is not allowing free will!