tinytherese Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1948597' date='Aug 14 2009, 02:17 AM']And what about murderers who kill children and adults alike and get away with it, leaving families in anguish? How is "the greater good" leaving people in misery and pain?[/quote] God can bring good out of even the worst of situations. Perhaps someone in the family or someone who heard about what happened could be inspired to become a police officer, private investigator, judge, or attorney that would make a great impact in the world and maybe even finally find the murderers after all of those years. Or perhaps the murderers after commiting such a grave offense...hitting rock bottom would finally realize how horribly wrong it was what they did and look back on their lives seeing how bad they had truly become and eventually repent of what they did and back to God or turn to God for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1948847' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:36 PM']+J.M.J.+ can i ask why you would phrase it like that then?[/quote] Because people who pray to trees probably don't pray for health or happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948858' date='Aug 14 2009, 03:52 PM']Because people who pray to trees probably don't pray for health or happiness.[/quote] Have you every read the children's book "The Giving Tree." *Spoiler Alert* Turns out it really smells of elderberries to be the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The thing is no one has difficulty praying to God when things are really going bad. If He doesn't answer then it's all His fault for it happening. If He does answer, then great you got what you wanted. Either way you have a scapegoat or a savior. In my experience (myself included) we hold on to our grudges much more than heroes. The saving is quickly explained away and forgotten, while the inaction can live on in our minds for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1948837' date='Aug 14 2009, 01:16 PM']Because I don't want to. Besides, I'd rather beg my tree for gifts and treasures. You can't prove he won't give them to me.[/quote] Funny you should mock prayer, and maybe even those who pray, after recently asking us to pray for you. I think you weren't so bitter when you where a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1949057' date='Aug 14 2009, 05:35 PM']Funny you should mock prayer, and maybe even those who pray, after recently asking us to pray for you. I think you weren't so bitter when you where a Christian.[/quote] I wasn't mocking people who pray. If you'd get the off your high horse and read EVERYTHING I say, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on anymore. I made a JOKE about how I feel about the reasoning of "If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?" If you take offense, too bad for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteMan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Let's go off topic for a minute. Prove to me that Plato ever existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteMan Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 You can't. Because everything that you try to tell me, I can relpy "I don't belive you", or "That's a conspiricy". My point is, you can never prove things to a conspirorist, they can always come up with a way to debunk your proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1949066' date='Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM']I wasn't mocking people who pray. If you'd get the off your high horse and read EVERYTHING I say, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on anymore. I made a JOKE about how I feel about the reasoning of "If prayer truly is sometihng that cannot be proven if it works or not then why not just do it anyway?" If you take offense, too bad for you.[/quote] See what I mean about bitter.... sorry that I misunderstood your joke as mocking but you have had a history for some time as well having not so nice things to say that look like mocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1949119' date='Aug 14 2009, 06:26 PM']See what I mean about bitter.... sorry that I misunderstood your joke as mocking but you have had a history for some time as well having not so nice things to say that look like mocking.[/quote] Yes, I'm bitter. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to attack my character and bring in personal issues. Yes, I asked for prayers. Thanks for being the bigger person and using that against me. I'm glad my health can win you points in a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1949165' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:20 PM']Yes, I'm bitter. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to attack my character and bring in personal issues. Yes, I asked for prayers. Thanks for being the bigger person and using that against me. I'm glad my health can win you points in a debate.[/quote] Again, I was confused because it always seems your bitter, often mock others, and make jokes that are often offensive. I am sorry for that misunderstanding, I wish I had not made that mistake but I did. I can only explain why the mistake was made and apologize. Which is what I have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1948597' date='Aug 14 2009, 02:17 AM']What about people who die needlessly, like children, who have supposedly never sinned? The truth is, no one can really say if prayer does anything because we don't know if there is a heaven or hell, and we don't know if we'll be sitting up there going "oh, I get why that prayer wasn't answered." And what about murderers who kill children and adults alike and get away with it, leaving families in anguish? How is "the greater good" leaving people in misery and pain? Sorry, this is just something that I have not gotten over (and never will) and I'm very bitter about it. I started doubting God's existance 4 years ago and it's gone downhill ever since.[/quote] People don't needlesly die. They die for a reason. Just because you are unable to see it, does not mean it didn't happen for a reason. There are many things we don't understand in this world. To just assume since you don't understand it means its needless is very short sighted. Get away with it? They can not get away from God's judgement. In the end, they will recieve the punishment they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunshynn Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If you think of prayer as simply asking for whatever you want and believe, for some reason, that you are therefore automatically entitled to get what you asked for, when you asked for it, and the way you wanted it, then yeah, prayer doesn't necessarily work. I think of prayer as being the way that you communicate with someone that I love, and that I believe loves me... loves me so much that he sometimes refuses to give me what I'm sure I need because in fact, he knows there is something better for me. And in that sense, yes, prayer always works... because it paves a way for trust and love in that relationship to grow. Rape is a terrible crime... I could not begin to explain why God permits that to happen to some people. But I know, for my own life, even horrendous experiences that he has allowed me to go through, have allowed me to grow, to become stronger, in ways I would not have. Some of those things I'm sure were/are unfair if you were to look at it simply equity. But God doesn't necessarily make things equitable. He gives us what we need. And sometimes by permitting someone to sin against us, he finds ways to give us what we need. Some of them I can see now, looking back, how that was so. The ones that I still don't understand, I choose to trust that there was, nonetheless, a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteMan Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1949227' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:20 PM']People don't needlesly die. They die for a reason. Just because you are unable to see it, does not mean it didn't happen for a reason. There are many things we don't understand in this world. To just assume since you don't understand it means its needless is very short sighted. Get away with it? They can not get away from God's judgement. In the end, they will recieve the punishment they deserve.[/quote] I agree. God has his reasons for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Some things are just too big for us to understand. Asking for prayers for many is the same as asking for someone to wish you luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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