Gemma Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='17 August 2009 - 09:36 PM' timestamp='1250555771' post='1951502'] I've drawn up plans for a religious community, even though I have no intention of ever starting one. I've discerned I am called to join an already established order, not form my own. I've drawn ideas for the habit and rule, but I would give them to someone else who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism I have thought of. [/quote] You can either be an "amoeba founder" and found the group out of your spirituality as a religious, or you can email me everything and Cloister Outreach can "foster it." If we ever get our own domain, I would dedicate an email address to such a purpose and call it "doorstep". Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='17 August 2009 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1250555771' post='1951502'] I've drawn up plans for a religious community, even though I have no intention of ever starting one. I've discerned I am called to join an already established order, not form my own. I've drawn ideas for the habit and rule, but I would give them to someone else who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism I have thought of. [/quote] I would very much be interested in knowing more about your previous plans, if you'd be interested in sharing! Pax Christi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 At this time, I would be more comfortable waiting a while before I divulge the nature of the charism I had visioned. If I feel that God is calling me to turn it over to someone else, I will, at that time. I hope you understand. God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='17 August 2009 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1250573356' post='1951758'] At this time, I would be more comfortable waiting a while before I divulge the nature of the charism I had visioned. If I feel that God is calling me to turn it over to someone else, I will, at that time. I hope you understand. God bless you. [/quote] [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='17 August 2009 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1250555771' post='1951502'] I've drawn up plans for a religious community, even though I have no intention of ever starting one. I've discerned I am called to join an already established order, not form my own. I've drawn ideas for the habit and rule, but I would give them to someone else who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism I have thought of. [/quote] Ah. I must have misunderstood. In the quote above you said you would give them to someone who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism you'd thought of... but then never mentioned said charism. Blessings on your vocational journey. Pax Christi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='HisChild' date='18 August 2009 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1250573599' post='1951760'] Ah. I must have misunderstood. In the quote above you said you would give them to someone who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism you'd thought of... but then never mentioned said charism. Blessings on your vocational journey. Pax Christi. [/quote] No, you didn't misunderstand. I would rather talk, in-person, to the individual or group that I would be handing my ideas over to. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='17 August 2009 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1250575017' post='1951767'] No, you didn't misunderstand. I would rather talk, in-person, to the individual or group that I would be handing my ideas over to. God bless. [/quote] Ah. I see. I have often thought of founding a community. I have ideas on paper, ones that since I'm not to the point of sounding articulate (and of course through prayer, making sure this is what our Lord wants of me) I've not shared with others or joined any Founders group to discuss. I've got Horarium, habit, charism/prayer focus, etc. in my heart and mind. I just thought that seeing a similar thought come across the forum, well it piqued my curiosity. The Spirit sure does move as He wills, doesn't He? Pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChild' date='18 August 2009 - 02:14 AM' timestamp='1250576054' post='1951773'] Ah. I see. I have often thought of founding a community. I have ideas on paper, ones that since I'm not to the point of sounding articulate (and of course through prayer, making sure this is what our Lord wants of me) I've not shared with others or joined any Founders group to discuss. I've got Horarium, habit, charism/prayer focus, etc. in my heart and mind. I just thought that seeing a similar thought come across the forum, well it piqued my curiosity. The Spirit sure does move as He wills, doesn't He? Pax. [/quote] Yes, I know what you mean. I would feel absolutely silly joining a "Founders" group when I have no intention of becoming a Founder. I'm not even sure that God is calling this order into being. Sometimes I think it was just a romantic notion I had. I'm in agreement that the Holy Spirit moves us. Edited August 18, 2009 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I have mused about founding a house of my community in my country (well, let's be honest, in my birth city ), even to the point of where we could live, the horarium, and the apostolate But as I am to be member #9, that won't be happening for a while... It [i]is[/i] fun though, cycling past a random building and thinking how marvellous a convent it would make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='18 August 2009 - 03:25 AM' timestamp='1250576710' post='1951774'] Yes, I know what you mean. I would feel absolutely silly joining a "Founders" group when I have no intention of becoming a Founder. I'm not even sure that God is calling this order into being. Sometimes I think it was just a romantic notion I had. I'm in agreement that the Holy Spirit moves us. [/quote] If it comes into being--that's God's business. Our part of the deal is to be the mouthpiece, then get out of His way. We have founders' supporters on the group, also. That's why it's called "founders and friends." Your reaction is showing your "maternal instincts" for your "child." I see the Spirit moving in this--He is instructing you in what I've tried to say myself. "Fostering" a charism is not a new concept--at least not to me and Cloister Outreach. I've had a few aspiring founders wanting to hand over their charisms for us to "foster." One of them has terrible fibromyalgia, and her health won't permit her to be that fully involved. What a lot of folks aren't understanding is that those who read those proposed charism websites will realize the match within their souls, and the Seven Pillars will have contributions from the founding members. Not all of it comes from the Promoter (the Church's word for founder). HisChild--what you could have is an eremitical plan of life. Perhaps you're being called to diocesan hermit, with the possibility of a commmunity forming afterwards. Of course, that's just an assumption, as I've heard nothing of what you have written. Joining founders groups is a particular stage of emergence. Some join earlier than others, and some become founders in spite of themselves, having joined only to support emerging charisms. MM--I am here for the face-to-face. You only have to request it. Please feel free to contact me at foundress2003@yahoo.com Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnavarro61 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote]The biggest problem we emerging founders are encountering is this "are you official" stuff.[/quote] I can understand your frustation, Gemma, but people has the right to know if the "emerging group" is recognized. Recognition is very important. The group must have recognition papers, etc. even if it just growing, or not yet officially founded. The diocese has the right to know, since as a body, it has to take care of every part. It might be very alarming for them if someone founding a new order is claiming to be in their diocese. What if you're the superior of a community, and without your knowledge, a group of your members are starting a "Renewal of your group" without your knowledge, and they are advertising. How would you feel? It that were me, I would feel very bad. [quote]If being official is so important, discern with "official" communities (established). Those who are called to a new foundation often feel within that they are to be part of something new.[/quote] We must encourage discerners first to discover about established communities first. Like wine, orders become better as time goes by. If they are to be in a newly organized, unofficial and unrecognized order, they will not be able to experience what all religious have experienced. And if the new order disappoints them, that would be very unjust for the discerner and she may think that all religious are like that. NEw communities are still learning, and it would be very frustating for discerners. I do not discourage vocations to new communities. [quote]What the OSMM did was attempt to get the diocesan Chancellor to acknowledge them as a private association of the faithful, and he wouldn't even do that. He told them there are other choices for women such as secular institutes (check the age limits, dear Rev. Mr.).[/quote] I think this is a test of fire. If they persevere, they will survive, and if not and went the other way, it would be very difficult. [quote]The OSMM were going on retreat, and the retreat mistress, the former vicar for religious, told them that acknowledgement would be required before real veils could be worn.[/quote] Acknowledgment = recognition [quote]Please note that a bishop cannot constitute a private association of the faithful--he can only acknowledge it. And before he acknowledges it, he has to know what they're all about, so it makes no sense to go to a bishop with only an idea in one's head. That wastes everybody's time.[/quote] This is of course true, a common sense. Now if the new order (not the OSMM)accepts postulants, aspirants, etc, don't you think it would be the time to ask for recognition? If the order (again not the OSMMs) has come to accepting postulants, I think it's no longer just an idea. [quote]I've advised the OSMM to let go and let God. They shouldn't be in a hurry for the piece of paper. They have to let the charism grow first, and show the diocese that they are doing good. They are living their rule, sans habit, and are starting their apostolates. The Spirit will let them know when it's time to go back to the Chancery.[/quote] Surrender is the highest form of wisdom. But what do you mean by sans habits? Regarding religious habits, an unofficial order must not wear habits first. It would be very misleading. I know of the Daughters of Saint Joseph. I don't know what happened to them but they didn't wear the habits first, but has a plan of wearing one after being official. [quote] Thomas--I am trying my best to answer your questions. Perhaps George on Catholic Vocations Asia could help with translation or concepts.[/quote] I want to say that I am quite insulted with this one. I can understand English but you seem not to understand what I am asking, and you answer other things that are not related. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 My spiritual director is the former president and vice president of the defunct Fellowship of Emerging Religious Communities. Our Founders groups are an indirect replacement of that group, as it did have a function. I'm not sure what caused it to fold. Our directors have told us to have everything down on paper, and live the life before approaching the Chancery. What the bishop will ask is whether or not this charism has enhanced one's life with the Lord, and if others are edified by what you're doing. Our Cloisterite Hermits are working with the Diocese of Charlotte, NC, through a canonist who is also a hermit. We are an "official" project, and are known to the bishop. Emerging charisms work with canonists who in turn represent them before the bishop. I was not trying to insult you, Thomas, only trying to help. "Sans habits" means without habits. There are different levels of recognition. The foundress of the OSMM has registered with Phatmass, but is awaiting the magical tenth post before she can post in defense of her charism. I think it would be imprudent to go any further with this discussion until she can be consulted. As I said, those who are moved by the Spirit to inquire about emerging charisms will do so even with your strident campaign against them, which is actually in violation of canon 605. If the bishop is to be a nurturing father to emerging charisms, then then the faithful are to be nurturing as well. Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnavarro61 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) [quote]As I said, those who are moved by the Spirit to inquire about emerging charisms will do so even with your strident campaign against them, which is actually in violation of canon 605. If the bishop is to be a nurturing father to emerging charisms, then then the faithful are to be nurturing as well.[/quote] Going back to the posts, [b]it seems to me that the focus is not on the charism of OSMM.[/b] No one questions the charism of OSMM. Sorry but this is the reality: the posts were taken far from the original topic. Mother Teresa, when she started her community, wrote to her bishop to discern her vocation as a founder. I was asking about the way of founding, [b]not the charism.[/b] Are there anyone here who are campaigning against inquiry on emerging charisms Edited August 18, 2009 by tnavarro61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I have a strong preference for new foundations that come out of old ones, cf. the Missionaries of Charity, the new Franciscan communities, the Ann Arbor Dominicans, and the founding sisters of the Adoratrices. Or, like the Daughters of Mary, Mother of Israel's Hope now and the Brothers of St. John in the 70's, a year-long novitiate with an existing community. Starting entirely "on your own" is something for dire circumstances only. Of course the Holy Spirit moves in people, and the Lord often equips the called rather than calling the equipped, but there is a reason why hermits have always been an important but small part of the religious life. For the overwhelming majority, formation under a novice master/mistress is what we need. There are hundreds of communities in the Church, with hundreds of charisms, and much variation within communities (I can take my own future community as an example, which has sisters ranging from Charismatic to Chartres-walking). So yes, I would discourage people who are starting their discernment to look at emerging charisms, until they have taken a good long look at existing communities. There [i]are[/i] communities that take women of higher ages. There [i]are[/i] communities that take women with physical difficulties. You might have to look beyond the borders, but that's not limited to people of "special needs". I know of two Dutch novices in France, four simply professed in Rome, two aspirants in England (not counting myself)... all under 35. I do believe that there are people with a genuine call to the hermit life. I consider one of them a good friend. And I mean no disrespect to those who have difficulty finding a community that fits them. But then I read for example about how happy Sr. Michael Maria is, and I can't help but think some people are missing out. Which is something that upsets me, hence the passionate post. I'm truly sorry if I upset anyone, and I might eat my words later, but I do stand behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='tnavarro61' date='18 August 2009 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1250599332' post='1951821'] Going back to the posts, [b]it seems to me that the focus is not on the charism of OSMM.[/b] No one questions the charism of OSMM. Sorry but this is the reality: the posts were taken far from the original topic. Mother Teresa, when she started her community, wrote to her bishop to discern her vocation as a founder. I was asking about the way of founding, [b]not the charism.[/b] Are there anyone here who are campaigning against inquiry on emerging charisms [/quote] Groundwork for the Seven Pillars of New Foundations: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Founders_and_Friends/message/263 In the search box at the top of the post, enter "seven pillars" and you'll be taken to that particular post. The archives are public, so you can browse. HTH. Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 [quote name='Gemma' date='18 August 2009 - 07:12 AM' timestamp='1250604734' post='1951835'] Groundwork for the Seven Pillars of New Foundations: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Founders_and_Friends/message/263 In the search box at the top of the post, enter "seven pillars" and you'll be taken to that particular post. The archives are public, so you can browse. HTH. Blessings, Gemma [/quote] Gemma, I read this message, thank you for posting it. Where does it come from? Is it from Canon Law, the Catechism, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now